Has America's culture of "wokeness" effected the Anabaptists?

[temporal1]

i can’t think of any popularized/politicized group or movement, or word, that didn’t BEGIN with some alluring, if not undeniable, good intentions. BEGIN is the operative word.

TIME reveals outcomes. “By their fruits they will be known”.

Without God’s Truth, protection, guidance, blessing, all human constructs are vulnerable to failure.
Whining about “who sabotaged” this marvelous endeavor doesn’t hold up.

From the start, many sensensed BLM was on a bad path, believing Jesus died for black lives, and all lives, not Black Lives.
This caused a national uproar: how dare you question our obvious purity?

Quickly enter plain old fashioned Corruption/corruption (if you like, capital C is ok) .. i haven’t kept up with details of how this is the fault of conservatives, and, beyond question, intentional. i just call it sin.

For those who regularly find themselves eagerly following the latest, greatest, only to regularly experience crash+burn, maybe trade out scripturally led foresight for the more fanciful fun of whining+blaming - for increased peace of mind.

Jesus empowered the lowliest without creating perpetual victims. He relieved His from bonds of covetousness.
This is so powerful, He is hated.

HK:
Which center-right people are you thinking of?
I read and listen to a number of conservative thinkers that want nothing to do with the far right and are very vocal about it.

^^i don’t recognize any of barnhart’s references, neither would i go digging for them.

Yes, the center left has the same problem. Exhibit A would be the reluctance to call out anti semitism on the left.

^^Ben Shapiro is pretty offended by this. (i listened yesterday.) He might use the word “refusal”.

[Szdfan]

Are you ironically using “right wing” as a slur while accusing them of using “woke” as slur or are you just not that self-aware?

I think "right wing" is thrown about casually to paint center right and far right the same color. One way to combat this would be for the center right to separate from the far right and draw clear lines. As long as the center right defends Unite the Right rallies and ideas like NETR and Theonomy, they open themselves to be dismissed with broad brush attacks.

Kind of like how the center-left plays footsie with the woke. Biden is not woke, Harris is not woke but they also can’t bring themselves to disavow or criticize folx to their left.

Which center-right people are you thinking of? I read and listen to a number of conservative thinkers that want nothing to do with the far right and are very vocal about it.

Where on the spectrum would you place Tucker Carlson and his former employer, Fox News?

[Szdfan]

i can’t think of any popularized/politicized group or movement, or word, that didn’t BEGIN with some alluring, if not undeniable, good intentions. BEGIN is the operative word.

The Nazis. I don't think the Nazis began with good intentions.

[Soloist]

i can’t think of any popularized/politicized group or movement, or word, that didn’t BEGIN with some alluring, if not undeniable, good intentions. BEGIN is the operative word.

The Nazis. I don't think the Nazis began with good intentions.

Perhaps the logical statement would be that rare is the group that doesn’t attempt to couch their views in good intentions.

[HondurasKeiser]

I think "right wing" is thrown about casually to paint center right and far right the same color. One way to combat this would be for the center right to separate from the far right and draw clear lines. As long as the center right defends Unite the Right rallies and ideas like NETR and Theonomy, they open themselves to be dismissed with broad brush attacks.

Kind of like how the center-left plays footsie with the woke. Biden is not woke, Harris is not woke but they also can’t bring themselves to disavow or criticize folx to their left.

Which center-right people are you thinking of? I read and listen to a number of conservative thinkers that want nothing to do with the far right and are very vocal about it.

Where on the spectrum would you place Tucker Carlson and his former employer, Fox News?

I don't have television so I have little to no knowledge of what goes on at Fox. My guess is they play footsie with the more extreme, yet still acceptable elements of the Right. They're not Infowars or Breitbart but neither are they National Review or Commentary. Tucker is an interesting case of someone that was mainstream, center-right but has drifted to the far right. Whether or not he's a true believer is another question. Charlie Kirk and the Federalist strike me as grifter types. Center-Right by predilection but indulging Far Right notions for clicks. The same could be said of MSNBC, Mother Jones, TNR and even the Post and the Times on the Left.

What makes both the Far Right and the Far Left interesting (and influential) is that they ask questions and raise concerns that are outside the Overton Window and thus often seen as taboo. That question raising is important and good and if done well, can and overtime, shift the window in their direction. Their more subtle influence comes from the fact that I think that right-thinking people have sympathy for some of the questions raised by the Far Right even if they don't care for the whole package or the tactics used. Likewise for the left-leaning people and the Far Left.

[temporal1]

i can’t think of any popularized/politicized group or movement, or word, that didn’t BEGIN with some alluring, if not undeniable, good intentions. BEGIN is the operative word.

The Nazis. I don't think the Nazis began with good intentions.

Perhaps the logical statement would be that rare is the group that doesn’t attempt to couch their views in good intentions.

i think so.
as well, from what i understand, Nazis, Margaret Sanger, etc., BEGAN attempting to “do good” regardless how obviously ill-fated history reflects. they THOUGHT they were going to improve things. and they scooped up followers.

the couching can be intentional or not. or even both.

“The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”

[temporal1]

I don't have television so I have little to no knowledge of what goes on at Fox. My guess is they play footsie with the more extreme, yet still acceptable elements of the Right. They're not Infowars or Breitbart but neither are they National Review or Commentary. Tucker is an interesting case of someone that was mainstream, center-right but has drifted to the far right. Whether or not he's a true believer is another question. Charlie Kirk and the Federalist strike me as grifter types. Center-Right by predilection but indulging Far Right notions for clicks. The same could be said of MSNBC, Mother Jones, TNR and even the Post and the Times on the Left.

What makes both the Far Right and the Far Left interesting (and influential) is that they ask questions and raise concerns that are outside the Overton Window and thus often seen as taboo. That question raising is important and good and if done well, can and overtime, shift the window in their direction. Their more subtle influence comes from the fact that I think that right-thinking people have sympathy for some of the questions raised by the Far Right even if they don't care for the whole package or the tactics used. Likewise for the left-leaning people and the Far Left.

someone might start a poll on who watches/follows these different sources.

i never followed Fox, barely heard of TC until his departure from Fox was discussed on forum.
i’ve now viewed a few of his interviews. i don’t care for him, at all, but, he has some interesting guests.

this forum is often focused on “them” - i guess people who are not members - not present.
yet a forum guideline is to avoid discussing those not present! this becomes puzzling for me.

[ken_sylvania]

i can’t think of any popularized/politicized group or movement, or word, that didn’t BEGIN with some alluring, if not undeniable, good intentions. BEGIN is the operative word.

The Nazis. I don't think the Nazis began with good intentions.

You don't think the Nazis had some good intentions at the beginning?

[Ken]

i can’t think of any popularized/politicized group or movement, or word, that didn’t BEGIN with some alluring, if not undeniable, good intentions. BEGIN is the operative word.

The Nazis. I don't think the Nazis began with good intentions.

You don't think the Nazis had some good intentions at the beginning?

They sought political power like any other political party. And as such worked to gain the favor of the constituencies of whose support they were seeking. Intentions are a hard thing to pin down. But they certainly did a lot of things that were intended to generate political support. Like reducing crime and instability, bringing back jobs, reducing inflation, etc. Were those good things on their own when taken in isolation? Or where they just part of a cynical plan to take power and implement other more sinister objectives? Probably a combination of both.

[Szdfan]

Kind of like how the center-left plays footsie with the woke. Biden is not woke, Harris is not woke but they also can’t bring themselves to disavow or criticize folx to their left.

Which center-right people are you thinking of? I read and listen to a number of conservative thinkers that want nothing to do with the far right and are very vocal about it.

Where on the spectrum would you place Tucker Carlson and his former employer, Fox News?

I don't have television so I have little to no knowledge of what goes on at Fox. My guess is they play footsie with the more extreme, yet still acceptable elements of the Right. They're not Infowars or Breitbart but neither are they National Review or Commentary. Tucker is an interesting case of someone that was mainstream, center-right but has drifted to the far right. Whether or not he's a true believer is another question. Charlie Kirk and the Federalist strike me as grifter types. Center-Right by predilection but indulging Far Right notions for clicks. The same could be said of MSNBC, Mother Jones, TNR and even the Post and the Times on the Left.

I agree with most of this.

What makes both the Far Right and the Far Left interesting (and influential) is that they ask questions and raise concerns that are outside the Overton Window and thus often seen as taboo. That question raising is important and good and if done well, can and overtime, shift the window in their direction.

Extremists have extreme beliefs and I'm not sure that all of their questions should shift society in their direction. For example, Germany's AfD party's attempt to normalize and Far-Right ideology frequently crashes into German taboos about its past. Björn Höcke, AfD's party head for Thuringia was recently fined €13,000 for using the phrase "Everything for Germany" (Alles fuer Deutscheland) which is prohibited in political speech because it was the slogan for the Nazi paramilitary SA stormtroopers. He has also criticized the Holocaust memorial at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin, calling the Germans “the only people in the world who planted a memorial of shame in the heart of their capital.” He has called for a “180-degree turn” in the country’s “politics of memory.” I don't think that historical revisionism about the Nazis is an Overton window that the Germans should shift.

Their more subtle influence comes from the fact that I think that right-thinking people have sympathy for some of the questions raised by the Far Right even if they don't care for the whole package or the tactics used. Likewise for the left-leaning people and the Far Left.

I think this is true. We are experiencing a moment of insecurity and instability. When that happens, extremist views become more appealing to more people. I think we are facing the possibility of an extremist period in history and that is something that concerns me.