Sudsy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 7:29 pm
Do you believe we need to eagerly desire spiritual gifts
Yes, I do. Note that I don't think babbling nonsense is a "spiritual gift", just to head off that discussion.
But to your question, I believe a woman should seek to know if God wants her to cover her head materially,
There is nothing to "seek". The Bible clearly teaches what should be done.
when and where and with what and that the local church should keep away from requiring specifics on things when the scriptures do not get that specific. I believe a local church should be able to have unity with diversity of practise unless that practise is one in a scriptural list that will keep one from the Kingdom. I don't believe in forced sanctification which, imo, is a hindrance to spiritual growth for each Christian.
I believe a local church should at least agree on the very basics of how to follow obvious scriptures. If it doesn't, the church is lacking any unity or useful witness at all.
Sudsy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 7:29 pm
Do you believe we need to eagerly desire spiritual gifts
Yes, I do. Note that I don't think babbling nonsense is a "spiritual gift", just to head off that discussion.
But to your question, I believe a woman should seek to know if God wants her to cover her head materially,
There is nothing to "seek". The Bible clearly teaches what should be done.
when and where and with what and that the local church should keep away from requiring specifics on things when the scriptures do not get that specific. I believe a local church should be able to have unity with diversity of practise unless that practise is one in a scriptural list that will keep one from the Kingdom. I don't believe in forced sanctification which, imo, is a hindrance to spiritual growth for each Christian.
I believe a local church should at least agree on the very basics of how to follow obvious scriptures. If it doesn't, the church is lacking any unity or useful witness at all.
Some truly have the gift of tongues which Apostle Paul said to desire, but even more to prophesy. I have no doubt there is counterfeit I have no doubt there is real. He teaches much more about spiritual gifts than ambiguous head covering passage which has led to much contention. And division.
If the Holy Spirit has given gifts to men, be careful you don't blasphrme the Holy Spirit. We are to "test" the spirits to see if they are from God but I often wonder if all professing Christians can discern. The gift of discernment should be sought as well.
A former Amish then Mennonite woman stopped covering telling me God cares very little about what He says little about. I don't necessarily degree but she was fed up with the Anabaptists rules in "specific requirements" it seems and left Anabaptism for what she called a "Full Gospel" Church. She distanced herself from me when I started covering (I was sad at this, as so did women from my church at the time). Parkside people don't comment except couple people asking where I came from- I feel most comfortable at Oasis Tabernacle where most women cover, but not "Uniformity" where Holy hands are lifted and spiritual gifts believed in and not criticized.
Valerie wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 8:12 pm
Some truly have the gift of tongues which Apostle Paul said to desire, but even more to prophesy. I have no doubt there is counterfeit I have no doubt there is real. He teaches much more about spiritual gifts than ambiguous head covering passage which has led to much contention. And division.
The Bible never teaches to "earnestly desire to babble nonsense", though.
If the Holy Spirit has given gifts to men, be careful you don't blasphrme the Holy Spirit. We are to "test" the spirits to see if they are from God but I often wonder if all professing Christians can discern. The gift of discernment should be sought as well.
Is it not near blasphemy to claim the Holy Spirit makes people spew gibberish?
A former Amish then Mennonite woman stopped covering telling me God cares very little about what He says little about. I don't necessarily degree but she was fed up with the Anabaptists rules in "specific requirements" it seems and left Anabaptism for what she called a "Full Gospel" Church. She distanced herself from me when I started covering (I was sad at this, as so did women from my church at the time). Parkside people don't comment except couple people asking where I came from- I feel most comfortable at Oasis Tabernacle where most women cover, but not "Uniformity" where Holy hands are lifted and spiritual gifts believed in and not criticized.
As I have said often, Valerie, a lot of ex-Mennonites are people who decide to abandon the simple truth of the gospel and embrace other, strange doctrines. I generally don't consider them much of an authority on, well, much of anything, and particularly would avoid them for any opinions they might hold on doctrine.
gracefortoday wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 4:29 pmAnd what is the measure to tell if they cover or not?
My wife and I are with Ernie's earlier reply to the OP - sometimes yes and sometimes no. For my wife, its simply when her long hair (which Paul designates as a glory to her) is concealed.
She still wears our denomination's style of cap for worship and much of the time in public, but after more study over the past couple years, she did change her denomination style cap over to an opaque material (the majority of our ladies have inherited and still use the window screen mesh material for their caps).
The more opaque caps are becoming more common in our circles as well. My wife’s newest ones are opaque, she ordered them that way. One of the reasons is they tolerate pins better, as ours do not have strings. The other reason is it is supposed to be a covering.
Sudsy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 7:29 pm
Do you believe we need to eagerly desire spiritual gifts
Yes, I do. Note that I don't think babbling nonsense is a "spiritual gift", just to head off that discussion.
But to your question, I believe a woman should seek to know if God wants her to cover her head materially,
There is nothing to "seek". The Bible clearly teaches what should be done.
when and where and with what and that the local church should keep away from requiring specifics on things when the scriptures do not get that specific. I believe a local church should be able to have unity with diversity of practise unless that practise is one in a scriptural list that will keep one from the Kingdom. I don't believe in forced sanctification which, imo, is a hindrance to spiritual growth for each Christian.
I believe a local church should at least agree on the very basics of how to follow obvious scriptures. If it doesn't, the church is lacking any unity or useful witness at all.
Some truly have the gift of tongues which Apostle Paul said to desire, but even more to prophesy. I have no doubt there is counterfeit I have no doubt there is real. He teaches much more about spiritual gifts than ambiguous head covering passage which has led to much contention. And division.
If the Holy Spirit has given gifts to men, be careful you don't blasphrme the Holy Spirit. We are to "test" the spirits to see if they are from God but I often wonder if all professing Christians can discern. The gift of discernment should be sought as well.
A former Amish then Mennonite woman stopped covering telling me God cares very little about what He says little about. I don't necessarily degree but she was fed up with the Anabaptists rules in "specific requirements" it seems and left Anabaptism for what she called a "Full Gospel" Church. She distanced herself from me when I started covering (I was sad at this, as so did women from my church at the time). Parkside people don't comment except couple people asking where I came from- I feel most comfortable at Oasis Tabernacle where most women cover, but not "Uniformity" where Holy hands are lifted and spiritual gifts believed in and not criticized.
Why do you pay so much attention to malcontents, when there plenty of people are perfectly happy in their plain communities. Trying to use exceptions to disprove the rule seldom leads anywhere productive .
Valerie wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 8:12 pm
Some truly have the gift of tongues which Apostle Paul said to desire, but even more to prophesy. I have no doubt there is counterfeit I have no doubt there is real. He teaches much more about spiritual gifts than ambiguous head covering passage which has led to much contention. And division.
The Bible never teaches to "earnestly desire to babble nonsense", though.
If the Holy Spirit has given gifts to men, be careful you don't blasphrme the Holy Spirit. We are to "test" the spirits to see if they are from God but I often wonder if all professing Christians can discern. The gift of discernment should be sought as well.
Is it not near blasphemy to claim the Holy Spirit makes people spew gibberish?
A former Amish then Mennonite woman stopped covering telling me God cares very little about what He says little about. I don't necessarily degree but she was fed up with the Anabaptists rules in "specific requirements" it seems and left Anabaptism for what she called a "Full Gospel" Church. She distanced herself from me when I started covering (I was sad at this, as so did women from my church at the time). Parkside people don't comment except couple people asking where I came from- I feel most comfortable at Oasis Tabernacle where most women cover, but not "Uniformity" where Holy hands are lifted and spiritual gifts believed in and not criticized.
As I have said often, Valerie, a lot of ex-Mennonites are people who decide to abandon the simple truth of the gospel and embrace other, strange doctrines. I generally don't consider them much of an authority on, well, much of anything, and particularly would avoid them for any opinions they might hold on doctrine.
I could make a very good case that the tongues of the Bible are actually known languages, given to reach unbelievers. It surely is not the babbling heard in many places.
But in many Menno circles it is pretty symbolic. That is how people can identify which group a particular woman belongs to from 100 feet away simply by glancing at her covering.
Pretty much this, with cap style coverings. Hanging veils can become a blur, though.
Valerie wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 8:12 pm
Some truly have the gift of tongues which Apostle Paul said to desire, but even more to prophesy. I have no doubt there is counterfeit I have no doubt there is real. He teaches much more about spiritual gifts than ambiguous head covering passage which has led to much contention. And division.
The Bible never teaches to "earnestly desire to babble nonsense", though.
If the Holy Spirit has given gifts to men, be careful you don't blasphrme the Holy Spirit. We are to "test" the spirits to see if they are from God but I often wonder if all professing Christians can discern. The gift of discernment should be sought as well.
Is it not near blasphemy to claim the Holy Spirit makes people spew gibberish?
A former Amish then Mennonite woman stopped covering telling me God cares very little about what He says little about. I don't necessarily degree but she was fed up with the Anabaptists rules in "specific requirements" it seems and left Anabaptism for what she called a "Full Gospel" Church. She distanced herself from me when I started covering (I was sad at this, as so did women from my church at the time). Parkside people don't comment except couple people asking where I came from- I feel most comfortable at Oasis Tabernacle where most women cover, but not "Uniformity" where Holy hands are lifted and spiritual gifts believed in and not criticized.
As I have said often, Valerie, a lot of ex-Mennonites are people who decide to abandon the simple truth of the gospel and embrace other, strange doctrines. I generally don't consider them much of an authority on, well, much of anything, and particularly would avoid them for any opinions they might hold on doctrine.
I could make a very good case that the tongues of the Bible are actually known languages, given to reach unbelievers. It surely is not the babbling heard in many places.
Everyone who makes this claim totally ignores and makes the mistake of considering the teaching of Apostle Paul regarding the "gift" of tongues and other spiritual gifts he taught in 1 Corinthians 12 & 13- clearly these were a different type of tongues than Acts 2- different purposes. Anytime I hear this argument I realize there is a lack of understanding, fine- but it is also erroneous teaching.
Yes, I do. Note that I don't think babbling nonsense is a "spiritual gift", just to head off that discussion.
There is nothing to "seek". The Bible clearly teaches what should be done.
I believe a local church should at least agree on the very basics of how to follow obvious scriptures. If it doesn't, the church is lacking any unity or useful witness at all.
Some truly have the gift of tongues which Apostle Paul said to desire, but even more to prophesy. I have no doubt there is counterfeit I have no doubt there is real. He teaches much more about spiritual gifts than ambiguous head covering passage which has led to much contention. And division.
If the Holy Spirit has given gifts to men, be careful you don't blasphrme the Holy Spirit. We are to "test" the spirits to see if they are from God but I often wonder if all professing Christians can discern. The gift of discernment should be sought as well.
A former Amish then Mennonite woman stopped covering telling me God cares very little about what He says little about. I don't necessarily degree but she was fed up with the Anabaptists rules in "specific requirements" it seems and left Anabaptism for what she called a "Full Gospel" Church. She distanced herself from me when I started covering (I was sad at this, as so did women from my church at the time). Parkside people don't comment except couple people asking where I came from- I feel most comfortable at Oasis Tabernacle where most women cover, but not "Uniformity" where Holy hands are lifted and spiritual gifts believed in and not criticized.
Why do you pay so much attention to malcontents, when there plenty of people are perfectly happy in their plain communities. Trying to use exceptions to disprove the rule seldom leads anywhere productive .
We became friends by me visiting her business. She is anything but malcontent in her faith. I believe that there is a belief among those in more spiritual settings to avoid what is referred to as a "religious spirit" as they can quench the Holy Spirit in dismissing gifts and see plain groups as such- kind of what Sudsy conveys. I have Baptist friends too whom I love but would also not be considered by these as "Full Gospel" or cessasionists, I have seen true and false so i understand both sides. It was comforting to meet As Anabaptists that were Baptized in the Holy Spirit and received gifts, so I can dismiss the thinking of those who don't have that kind of faith- I think my friend saw me as going the way of the "religious spirit" which she felt she had come from.
It was comforting to meet As Anabaptists that were Baptized in the Holy Spirit and received gifts
Every Anabaptist has been baptised and received the Holy Spirit, and received spiritual gifts as well (other than a tiny fraction who are not legitimately converted and fake their baptism, but in my experience this is rare).
It would be great if you would stop disparaging Anabaptists as not having spiritual gifts or not being baptised in the Spirit.