Would Donald Trump’s marriage be accepted in a CA church?

[Valerie]

JayP, with respect, there is no reason not to talk about a public figure and discuss how such a person could possibly fit into one of our churches.

I cannot see anything remotely immoral or wrong about discussing how a public figure could seek salvation and church membership.

If Trump fans or foes have a problem with it then I’d be happy to discuss it with them.

This isn’t an Eastern business meeting where we have “forbidden” topics and police each other’s speech.

This reminds me, there were Amish at Trump's rally in Harrisburg PA the other night. So the country could see the most conservative Anabaptists supporting a D & R candidate.

JapP might categorize this as ,"useless wranglings" the NT warns against. Yet the discussion turned from Trump to the actual theology among Anabaptists in various sects within. Interesting.

I do believe Mosaic law enters in in this way: God Himself was opposed to a spouse who remarried, to return to their original spouse as God saw them as "defiled" therefore not allowed. That was not Moses heart, but God's, therefore, God changeth not, I believe He would not want a spouse to ever return to their first spouse after they had remarried. He saw that as "defiled" which is why I never understood the Anabaptists encouraging returning to first spouse after a D & R

Moses probably had 2 wives and Abraham had 3.

If you want to rely on Mosaic law for marriage then you open the door for a lot of customs and practices we no longer tolerate.

Please reread what I said about how "God" not Moses, felt about returning to a first wife after divorce from second

[Valerie]

Just for clarification of what I said, regarding returning to your first spouse:

Deuteronomy 24:

24 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.

3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;

4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the Lord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

See it says that the Lord Himself sees that as an abomination to return to your first spouse, as you are defiled. THAT seems to be how He would always see that.

[Josh]

Just for clarification of what I said, regarding returning to your first spouse:

Deuteronomy 24:

24 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.

3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;

4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the Lord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

See it says that the Lord Himself sees that as an abomination to return to your first spouse, as you are defiled. THAT seems to be how He would always see that.

Are you aware we don't live under Old Testament law?

From Deut. 24:

14 Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns. 15 Pay them their wages each day before sunset, because they are poor and are counting on it. Otherwise they may cry to the Lord against you, and you will be guilty of sin.

Are you going to also claim that Christian employers need to run payroll daily, before sunset?

[Valerie]

Just for clarification of what I said, regarding returning to your first spouse:

Deuteronomy 24:

24 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.

3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;

4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the Lord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

See it says that the Lord Himself sees that as an abomination to return to your first spouse, as you are defiled. THAT seems to be how He would always see that.

Are you aware we don't live under Old Testament law?

From Deut. 24:

14 Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns. 15 Pay them their wages each day before sunset, because they are poor and are counting on it. Otherwise they may cry to the Lord against you, and you will be guilty of sin.

Are you going to also claim that Christian employers need to run payroll daily, before sunset?

Of course.
It's obvious to me though how God sees returning to a spouse as "abomination". He said the same thing about homosexuality. I think He still sees homosexuality as an abomination. I think He still sees one as "defiled" to return to first spouse as HE sees that as an abomination.
Mosaic law or not, it's obvious how He sees it.

[Josh]

Of course.
It's obvious to me though how God sees returning to a spouse as "abomination". He said the same thing about homosexuality. I think He still sees homosexuality as an abomination. I think He still sees one as "defiled" to return to first spouse as HE sees that as an abomination.
Mosaic law or not, it's obvious how He sees it.

Would you agree that we need to do this, too?

“These are the things the Lord has commanded you to do: For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it is to be put to death. Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”

I don't think God sees it as a defiled abomination for someone to reconcile with their first spouse. We don't see that in the New Testament at all. The New Testament does, on the other hand, speak about things like homosexuality.

[Valerie]

Of course.
It's obvious to me though how God sees returning to a spouse as "abomination". He said the same thing about homosexuality. I think He still sees homosexuality as an abomination. I think He still sees one as "defiled" to return to first spouse as HE sees that as an abomination.
Mosaic law or not, it's obvious how He sees it.

Would you agree that we need to do this, too?

“These are the things the Lord has commanded you to do: For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it is to be put to death. Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”

I don't think God sees it as a defiled abomination for someone to reconcile with their first spouse. We don't see that in the New Testament at all. The New Testament does, on the other hand, speak about things like homosexuality.

The New Testament says nothing about a second marriage divorce where the spouse then should reconcile to their first spouse. Probably because God already saw that act as an abomination so nowhere does NT nor Jesus say for a second marriage divorce situation for the spouse to then return to their first spouse.
God sees that as defiled & abomination. So reconciliation IS taught in NT providing one had not remarried.

[Josh]

Can you answer my question about putting people to death on the Sabbath day? God commanded that too.

[Soloist]

Just for clarification of what I said, regarding returning to your first spouse:

Deuteronomy 24:

24 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.

3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;

4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the Lord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

See it says that the Lord Himself sees that as an abomination to return to your first spouse, as you are defiled. THAT seems to be how He would always see that.

Are you aware we don't live under Old Testament law?

From Deut. 24:

14 Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns. 15 Pay them their wages each day before sunset, because they are poor and are counting on it. Otherwise they may cry to the Lord against you, and you will be guilty of sin.

Are you going to also claim that Christian employers need to run payroll daily, before sunset?

Of course.
It's obvious to me though how God sees returning to a spouse as "abomination". He said the same thing about homosexuality. I think He still sees homosexuality as an abomination. I think He still sees one as "defiled" to return to first spouse as HE sees that as an abomination.
Mosaic law or not, it's obvious how He sees it.

Wife: There’s the example of David and Michel (could be good or bad), Hosea and Gomer, and Jeremiah 3 (God and Israel) about taking the wife back. Some people think it depended on who initiated the divorce. Never was a thing with the man, especially given polygamy. Besides, it seems like it was the act of adultery/being with another man that was the defilement and not just remarriage, and we wouldn’t say that a person couldn’t take back an adulterous spouse.

Num 5:12  Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
Num 5:13  And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;
Num 5:14  And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:

Back then, adultery was punishable by death, so the only way she would be defiled and not be dead is if she was divorced and remarried.
Just my two cents. I respect other opinions but it does drive me nuts when friends of mine are guilt tripped for wanting to reconcile and take back a wayward spouse if the situation arises.

[temporal1]

Soloist:
Wife: There’s the example of David and Michel (could be good or bad), Hosea and Gomer, and Jeremiah 3 (God and Israel)
about taking the wife back.

Some people think it depended on who initiated the divorce. Never was a thing with the man, especially given polygamy.
Besides, it seems like it was the act of adultery/being with another man that was the defilement and not just remarriage,
and we wouldn’t say that a person couldn’t take back an adulterous spouse.

2021:

Speaking of Gomer! - mike shared this somewhere:

Song of Gomer

Song Of Gomer lyrics
by Michael Card

Don't know what he sees in me
He is spirit, he is free
And I, the wife of adultery
Gomer is my name.
Simply more than I can see
How he keeps on forgiving me;
How he keeps his sanity
Hosea, you're a fool.

Chorus:
A fool to love someone like me,
A fool to suffer silently;
Though sometimes through your eyes I see
I'd rather be a fool.

The fondness of a father,
The passion of a child;
The tenderness of a loving friend
An understanding smile.
All of this and so much more,
You've lavished on a faithless whore
I've never known love like this before
Hosea, you're a fool.

Chorus:
A fool to love someone like me,
A fool to suffer silently;
Though sometimes through your eyes I see
I'd rather be a fool.

Bridge:
This God of yours would not have told
To lift a love that you couldn't hold;
And though time and time again I flee,
I'm always glad to see you coming after me!

Simply more than I can see,
How he keeps on forgiving me
The wife of adultery;
Gomer is my name.
http://www.christian-lyrics.net/michael ... yrics.html

2016:

2 Peter 3:9
http://biblehub.com/2_peter/3-9.htm

The Day of the Lord
…8Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice:
With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

9The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief.
The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be dissolved in the fire, and the earth and its works will not be found.…

"not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."
powerful.

maybe this is not a valid correlation, but, when i read this in 2 Peter, i think of Gomer, in the Book of Hosea.
her sins were epic, her punishment harsh.
but, when she came to true repentance - forgiven. restored.

when God punished Gomer, it was not in anger, but patience. He wanted her loving obedience.

It took me years+years to “believe my eyes” when reading The Book of Hosea, about Hosea’s confounding devotion to God,
in spite of everything-everywhere-everyone he faced. Hosea had every legal+moral reason to divorce and remarry.

Hosea was devoted first to God. It was God, Himself, who restored Gomer to Hosea.

Baffling, in ways only God is capable of accomplishing.
It was only reading timidly about Hosea+Gomer on MD (and with Knight’s encouragement) i could finally believe my eyes were not playing tricks on me as i read The Book of Hosea.

It seems rare, but IRL, there are men who are longsuffering and forgiving of their errant spouses, whether their marriages are restored or not. It may not be as rare as it seems, these cases tend to exist in silence.

[Valerie]

Are you aware we don't live under Old Testament law?

From Deut. 24:



Are you going to also claim that Christian employers need to run payroll daily, before sunset?

Of course.
It's obvious to me though how God sees returning to a spouse as "abomination". He said the same thing about homosexuality. I think He still sees homosexuality as an abomination. I think He still sees one as "defiled" to return to first spouse as HE sees that as an abomination.
Mosaic law or not, it's obvious how He sees it.

Wife: There’s the example of David and Michel (could be good or bad), Hosea and Gomer, and Jeremiah 3 (God and Israel) about taking the wife back. Some people think it depended on who initiated the divorce. Never was a thing with the man, especially given polygamy. Besides, it seems like it was the act of adultery/being with another man that was the defilement and not just remarriage, and we wouldn’t say that a person couldn’t take back an adulterous spouse.

Num 5:12  Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
Num 5:13  And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;
Num 5:14  And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:

Back then, adultery was punishable by death, so the only way she would be defiled and not be dead is if she was divorced and remarried.
Just my two cents. I respect other opinions but it does drive me nuts when friends of mine are guilt tripped for wanting to reconcile and take back a wayward spouse if the situation arises.

It seems the key according to the passage is if she had actually "remarried" someone else, then was divorced again- that she could not return to first husband.
Pretty specific