Ernie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:15 am
silentreader wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:08 pm
Ernie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 9:20 pm
If a person refuses to believe that Jesus died, was buried, and rose again, I don't expect such a person to have eternal life.
But it wouldn't surprise me if people who aren't aware of this ancient happening (during the time they are living on this earth) are given eternal life. It happened for the OT saints, and therefore it does not seem to me to be outside of the character of God to do it for people today. I wouldn't encourage anyone to bank on this and try to stay ignorant as that is basically the same as refusing to believe that Jesus rose.
Interesting. So why evangelize, or disciple, if you prefer, if people would be better off not knowing and thus not being put at risk of making the wrong choice?
I do not know whether God gives all people a chance to hear the Gospel in this life or in the life to come. I'm just saying that it would not surprise me, and it would not be out of character for Him to do something like this, based on what he did between his death and resurrection.
But regardless of that, ignorance is not bliss. If a person makes the wrong choice in this life, they may also make the wrong choice should they have a chance in the life to come. It appears that not everybody in Hades heard and responded to the Gospel when Jesus came and preached to them (e.g. the rich man Dives). We don't know whether Dives did not hear the Gospel, whether he heard but did not respond favorably, or whether he heard but was not given the choice to respond, based on the choices he made in this life.
We do know that God wants people to believe, repent, and walk in newness of life in this life, so that is why we evangelize and make disciples.
Ignorance about God and His reality is not something that benefits anyone, whether in this life or the life to come. So, one of the reasons for evangelism and disciple-making is to help people understand reality and begin fulfilling the purpose for why they were created. Embracing reality includes believing in Jesus and in his death, burial, and resurrection.
We thrive whenever we embrace reality and begin embracing the purpose for our creation. I want to see everyone in the world, thrive!
At this point, this discussion touches on the relative seriousness of pioneer missionary efforts (spreading the Gospel to places where the people haven't heard, nor have had opportunity to hear). "How shall they believe unless they hear?"
Yes, the basic reason for telling the Good News is because 1.) It really IS good news. 2.) This is what *we* are commanded to do. (I personally understand the command to be for all Christians, not just the original Disciples, and not just the 'church' as an institution. But whether a command to each follower of Christ, only the leadership, or the church as the Body of Christ, that can be a separate discussion. Whether the *we* is each individual or the collective group, the command stands - this is what is to be done.)
You (Ernie) already answered this question, but I'll state it for the sake of other readers. Do 'you' think that a person who has never heard the Gospel will be more likely, or less likely to believe in this life, or in the afterlife (if offered such an opportunity)? (Personally, if I believed that there will be another opportunity, recognizing that God could explain the Gospel MUCH better than I, I would be reluctant to tell anyone here. If they have a better chance later, then I am condemning them to hell if I tell them, perhaps poorly, and they do not believe. At that point, see my last paragraph below, for another question.)
Last week I was at a new customer's house, and the subject of our previous occupation came up. I mentioned a certain Banawa man, Yowaki (or, translated, 'Squirrel'), and told how his death early in our time there was one of the saddest most disturbing experiences I have had - because he was one of the most monolingual speakers of the tribe, and I didn't yet speak Banawa, so I had not had any way to have told him the Gospel. He passed away without having the opportunity to believe. I started to tell about him to the Amishman (who turned out to be a minister), and I could barely finish the story, because I broke down and began weeping. (If you need to know, I'm crying now, too.) Yowaki died without Christ, without any opportunity to hear or believe the Gospel. Whose 'fault' is that? Who was told - SENT - maybe even decades or a century or more before us, but didn't obey? We CANNOT just think, Oh, well, God will surely give them an opportunity at the last judgement, so it's no big deal if I don't go myself to tell them.
Then, another question. Let's assume for the moment that God DOES INDEED offer another opportunity to those who have not heard, after their death. Is the Christian experience here and now worth enough that it is still needful, as much as is in our power, to make sure that people hear the Gospel? Would you want to tell them, even if the Christian life was only for this earthly life, and there is no resurrection? (That one gets into the question of whether the resurrection of Jesus is, or is not, a central part of the Gospel. As Paul says, If Christ has not been resurrected and transformed, then it is certain that no one else will be, either, and we are, in fact, the most miserable lot of people who have ever lived on this earth.)