Would Donald Trump’s marriage be accepted in a CA church?

[Josh]

Is there a scriptural basis for the position that what one did before becoming a Christian and joining the church is different for remarrying after becoming a Christian and joining the church? I can understand the reasoning, that those without the Spirit of God can't be held to the same standard as those with the Spirit of God, but I am curious if there are verses/passages that are used for this position.

Isn't the prohibition against divorce an offshoot of a Creation principle, "In the beginning it was not so", making it theoretically of universal application?

It would be interesting if CAs applied an “in the beginning, it was not so” principle to other areas. I generally do not see them doing this. For example, most of them are fine with a post-fall approach to wealth, employment, and so forth.

[Ernie]

Someone I am acquainted with... married a member. They had two children.

His wife abandoned him and... She expressed no desire at all to reconcile with him.

After he got remarried and he and his new wife had a baby, his first wife suddenly straightened her life out and decided to be present in the girls’ lives again. She has no desire to be a church member again but has abandoned some of the more extreme behaviour.

The treatment is identical to how it would be if they had both been non members when they got married.

So according to CoGiCM, is the man now responsible to live with his current wife only, or if his first wife repents and comes back to the church, could he separate from his current wife and live with his first wife again.

[Ernie]

Ok. So you see an allowance for divorce and remarriage in the case of porneia then?

I don’t see where the Bible prohibits remarriage at all, except it says explicitly not to marry a divorced woman.

The question is when a divorce is allowed. Matthew seems to say for porneia. If a divorce wasn’t allowed, someone should reconcile with their spouse who wants to reunite with them.

I agree with you on the allowance for divorce and remarriage.

I'm only trying to understand your wording when you say it is explicitly not to marry a divorced women...is it gender specific? Does it work in reverse? Can a single women marry a divorced man but not a divorced woman to a single/divorced man? I would say Jesus is allowing for divorce in remarriage in the case of someone's spouse (man or women) committing porneia against them with this particular allowance clause. But thats not the main point of His answer of course. His point is that divorce, remarriage, and porneia were never in His designs for marriage from the start.

The Old Testament seems to only allow divorce that is initiated by the husband. Jesus seems to be referring to this. I don't think Jesus is making a new policy that now allows women to divorce their husbands if they wish to.

https://gospelbillboards.org/scriptural ... emarriage/

[silentreader]

Is there a scriptural basis for the position that what one did before becoming a Christian and joining the church is different for remarrying after becoming a Christian and joining the church? I can understand the reasoning, that those without the Spirit of God can't be held to the same standard as those with the Spirit of God, but I am curious if there are verses/passages that are used for this position.

Isn't the prohibition against divorce an offshoot of a Creation principle, "In the beginning it was not so", making it theoretically of universal application?

It would be interesting if CAs applied an “in the beginning, it was not so” principle to other areas. I generally do not see them doing this. For example, most of them are fine with a post-fall approach to wealth, employment, and so forth.

What "pre-fall" principles should we be going by regarding wealth, employment and so forth? Evidently not," By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground,...."

[Josh]

Someone I am acquainted with... married a member. They had two children.

His wife abandoned him and... She expressed no desire at all to reconcile with him.

After he got remarried and he and his new wife had a baby, his first wife suddenly straightened her life out and decided to be present in the girls’ lives again. She has no desire to be a church member again but has abandoned some of the more extreme behaviour.

The treatment is identical to how it would be if they had both been non members when they got married.

So according to CoGiCM, is the man now responsible to live with his current wife only, or if his first wife repents and comes back to the church, could he separate from his current wife and live with his first wife again.

No. Once a decision is made to request permission to remarry and you do it, it is final. (I guess he could reunite with the first if his current wife dies.)

There are consequences for grievous sexual sins. One of them is that you may permanently lose your spouse. If I cheated on my wife, I would not expect her to choose to stay with me or reconcile with me. (I would be more focused on repenting and regaining being in the grace of God again.)

[Ernie]

Is there a scriptural basis for the position that what one did before becoming a Christian and joining the church is different for remarrying after becoming a Christian and joining the church? I can understand the reasoning, that those without the Spirit of God can't be held to the same standard as those with the Spirit of God, but I am curious if there are verses/passages that are used for this position.

Isn't the prohibition against divorce an offshoot of a Creation principle, "In the beginning it was not so", making it theoretically of universal application?

That is the position of most conservative Anabaptists, which is why they do not allow people who were divorced and remarried prior to conversion to continue living together.

[Ernie]

Someone I am acquainted with... married a member. They had two children.

His wife abandoned him and... She expressed no desire at all to reconcile with him.

After he got remarried and he and his new wife had a baby, his first wife suddenly straightened her life out and decided to be present in the girls’ lives again. She has no desire to be a church member again but has abandoned some of the more extreme behaviour.

The treatment is identical to how it would be if they had both been non members when they got married.

So according to CoGiCM, is the man now responsible to live with his current wife only, or if his first wife repents and comes back to the church, could he separate from his current wife and live with his first wife again.

No. Once a decision is made to request permission to remarry and you do it, it is final. (I guess he could reunite with the first if his current wife dies.)

There are consequences for grievous sexual sins. One of them is that you may permanently lose your spouse. If I cheated on my wife, I would not expect her to choose to stay with me or reconcile with me. (I would be more focused on repenting and regaining being in the grace of God again.)

This is basically the OT position, with the exception of returning to the first spouse if the second spouse dies. Bercot says that because of hardness of heart, divorce was permitted, but then the forbidding of returning to the first spouse was to make people think seriously about what they were doing. It also seems like it was a protection for the first wife, so that she would not need to live with a fickle husband. In those days, wives didn't get much say in the matter.

[Josh]

I don’t see where the Bible prohibits remarriage at all, except it says explicitly not to marry a divorced woman.

The question is when a divorce is allowed. Matthew seems to say for porneia. If a divorce wasn’t allowed, someone should reconcile with their spouse who wants to reunite with them.

I agree with you on the allowance for divorce and remarriage.

I'm only trying to understand your wording when you say it is explicitly not to marry a divorced women...is it gender specific? Does it work in reverse? Can a single women marry a divorced man but not a divorced woman to a single/divorced man? I would say Jesus is allowing for divorce in remarriage in the case of someone's spouse (man or women) committing porneia against them with this particular allowance clause. But thats not the main point of His answer of course. His point is that divorce, remarriage, and porneia were never in His designs for marriage from the start.

The Old Testament seems to only allow divorce that is initiated by the husband. Jesus seems to be referring to this. I don't think Jesus is making a new policy that now allows women to divorce their husbands if they wish to.

https://gospelbillboards.org/scriptural ... emarriage/

Yet Jesus didn’t say “don’t marry a divorced man”; divorced men certainly existed: every man who divorced his wife.

Early church views and early Anabaptist views don’t align with present day CA views. They were both much closer to the present day Catholic model. For example, an early question was if a wife could divorce a man who turned out to be a homosexual; church fathers were divided on the answer. (That doesn’t mean either of him are right, but the CA stance is essentially novel, about as old as premillenial dispensationalism, for example).

I will write a thread on why I think these views came to be.

[Ernie]

the CA stance is essentially novel, about as old as premillenial dispensationalism, for example).

Not all CA's think so.

https://www.watchmangospelsigns.com/res ... Pastor.pdf See pages 8, 9

[Josh]

the CA stance is essentially novel, about as old as premillenial dispensationalism, for example).

Not all CA's think so.

https://www.watchmangospelsigns.com/res ... Pastor.pdf See pages 8, 9

I respect their opinions but their scholarship on this is not particularly good.