Sudsy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 4:49 pm
Good to see Trump actually just stating he is not a Christian. Hope that is a new beginning to becoming one.
“You won’t have to vote any more, my beautiful Christians. I love you, Christians. I’m not Christian.”
I'm not sure where you saw that Trump said he is not a Christian. Here is what Rueters reported.
He added: "I love you Christians. I'm a Christian. I love you, get out, you gotta get out and vote. In four years, you don't have to vote again, we'll have it fixed so good you're not going to have to vote," Trump said.
Sudsy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 4:49 pm
Good to see Trump actually just stating he is not a Christian. Hope that is a new beginning to becoming one.
“You won’t have to vote any more, my beautiful Christians. I love you, Christians. I’m not Christian.”
I'm not sure where you saw that Trump said he is not a Christian. Here is what Rueters reported.
He added: "I love you Christians. I'm a Christian. I love you, get out, you gotta get out and vote. In four years, you don't have to vote again, we'll have it fixed so good you're not going to have to vote," Trump said.
And to be clear, me pointing this out is in no way suggesting I consider him to be one.
C-Span has the video, and in the comments has the transcript as auto-generated by closed captioning. Here's the part starting around 1:02:40.
We have to win this election. Most important election ever. We want a landslide. That's too big to rig. If you want to save America, get your friends, get your family, get everyone, you know, and vote, vote early vote, absentee, vote on election day. I don't care how but you have to get out and vote. And again, Christians get out and vote just this time, you won't have to do it anymore. Four more years, you know what? It'll be fixed, it'll be fine. You won't have to vote anymore. My beautiful Christians. I love you Christians. I'm not Christian. I love you. Get out. You've got to get out and vote in four years. You don't have to vote again. We'll have it fixed so good. You're not going to have to vote.
I will offer opinions that certain positions or behaviors or acts are not consistent with what I understand to be the teachings of Christ. I don't think, for example, that the kind of greed and behavior necessary to become a billionaire is consistent with Christ's teachings.
However I would not suggest that someone who claims to be Christian is not a "real" Christian based on some disagreement or disapproval of their positions or actions. I don't think it is for me to say whether someone else is saved or not.
For example, I have colleagues who attend one of the fast-growing community churches in my neighborhood. It isn't my cup of tea. But I would not challenge their Christianity simply because of the church they attend.
That doesn’t answer what I asked.
No I am not that arrogant. Or try not to be. Does that answer your question?
Sudsy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 5:16 pmI would be wanting to know when they were born again and how they now know they have been saved, are being saved and will be saved from the penalty of eternal death.
This is an odd criteria to decide who is and isn't a "Christian". It seems to me it is more a set of criteria of "people who believe in a specific set of evangelical doctrines".
Sudsy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 5:16 pmI would be wanting to know when they were born again and how they now know they have been saved, are being saved and will be saved from the penalty of eternal death.
This is an odd criteria to decide who is and isn't a "Christian". It seems to me it is more a set of criteria of "people who believe in a specific set of evangelical doctrines".
An old Dunkard was accosted on the street by an Evangelical young man who asked. "Brother are you saved?"
The Dunkard did not say anything but pulled a paper out of his pocket and began writing. After he finished writing he handed the paper to the Evangelical and said, "Here are the names of my neighbors and the people I do business with. Ask them if I am saved. I could tell you anything."
Sudsy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 5:16 pmI would be wanting to know when they were born again and how they now know they have been saved, are being saved and will be saved from the penalty of eternal death.
This is an odd criteria to decide who is and isn't a "Christian". It seems to me it is more a set of criteria of "people who believe in a specific set of evangelical doctrines".
An old Dunkard was accosted on the street by an Evangelical young man who asked. "Brother are you saved?"
The Dunkard did not say anything but pulled a paper out of his pocket and began writing. After he finished writing he handed the paper to the Evangelical and said, "Here are the names of my neighbors and the people I do business with. Ask them if I am saved. I could tell you anything."
That's nice & was meant to do what? Say that I a don't know whether I'm saved or not but I'm sure those who know me think so? Is that a lesson in humility?
I'm not accustomed to Christians I know using this tactic of evangelizing, but I do think he could have engaged in conversation with the man & that would have been more beneficial than trying to make a point. By doing this, he is coming across as one whose pretty sure people think he's saved. He knows, the man is not going to question his neighbors. He had a tactic of his own to avoid a discussion that may have been a good one, don't you think?
Josh wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 6:24 pm
This is an odd criteria to decide who is and isn't a "Christian". It seems to me it is more a set of criteria of "people who believe in a specific set of evangelical doctrines".
An old Dunkard was accosted on the street by an Evangelical young man who asked. "Brother are you saved?"
The Dunkard did not say anything but pulled a paper out of his pocket and began writing. After he finished writing he handed the paper to the Evangelical and said, "Here are the names of my neighbors and the people I do business with. Ask them if I am saved. I could tell you anything."
That's nice & was meant to do what? Say that I a don't know whether I'm saved or not but I'm sure those who know me think so? Is that a lesson in humility?
I'm not accustomed to Christians I know using this tactic of evangelizing, but I do think he could have engaged in conversation with the man & that would have been more beneficial than trying to make a point. By doing this, he is coming across as one whose pretty sure people think he's saved. He knows, the man is not going to question his neighbors. He had a tactic of his own to avoid a discussion that may have been a good one, don't you think?
Sorry but I don't.
I think he was trying to help the young man understand a valuable lesson... that words are simply that. Words.
James in his epistle tried teaching his readers the same thing.
14What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you tells him, “Go in peace; stay warm and well fed,” but does not provide for his physical needs, what good is that? 17So too, faith by itself, if it does not result in action,f is dead.
18But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that God is one.g Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?h 21Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”i and he was called a friend of God.j 24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.
Ernie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 7:08 pm
An old Dunkard was accosted on the street by an Evangelical young man who asked. "Brother are you saved?"
The Dunkard did not say anything but pulled a paper out of his pocket and began writing. After he finished writing he handed the paper to the Evangelical and said, "Here are the names of my neighbors and the people I do business with. Ask them if I am saved. I could tell you anything."
That's nice & was meant to do what? Say that I a don't know whether I'm saved or not but I'm sure those who know me think so? Is that a lesson in humility?
I'm not accustomed to Christians I know using this tactic of evangelizing, but I do think he could have engaged in conversation with the man & that would have been more beneficial than trying to make a point. By doing this, he is coming across as one whose pretty sure people think he's saved. He knows, the man is not going to question his neighbors. He had a tactic of his own to avoid a discussion that may have been a good one, don't you think?
Sorry but I don't.
I think he was trying to help the young man understand a valuable lesson... that words are simply that. Words.
James in his epistle tried teaching his readers the same thing.
14What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you tells him, “Go in peace; stay warm and well fed,” but does not provide for his physical needs, what good is that? 17So too, faith by itself, if it does not result in action,f is dead.
18But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that God is one.g Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?h 21Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”i and he was called a friend of God.j 24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.
That means there was a lot of "assuming" going on here which is why a discussion would have been beneficial, in my honest opinion. When the Bible says "do the work of an evangelist" it seems there's a "starting point" for the one who believes he has a calling to reach the lost,- it starts "somewhere".
If a random person on the street asked me if I were "saved", I would first ask him "from what", and then I would ask him if he is following Jesus and obeying him to the point he will be following him into his restored Kingdom. (I must admit that the last time I did that, the other person became uncomfortable and didn't want to talk any further.)
Josh wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 10:59 pm
If a random person on the street asked me if I were "saved", I would first ask him "from what", and then I would ask him if he is following Jesus and obeying him to the point he will be following him into his restored Kingdom. (I must admit that the last time I did that, the other person became uncomfortable and didn't want to talk any further.)