Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

[ken_sylvania]

If this was followed like cape dresses are for the ladies or Black vehicles for Eastern PA conference, the Anabaptist faith would be all over the planet with multitudes of churches in every city.

Well I don't see black vehicles for Eastern's being followed very closely at all.
In my youth for a short period I attended an Eastern church. Very few black vehicles were in the parking lot.
Possibly you are confusing black vehicle requirements with some other group.

At some Eastern churches the majority of vehicles are black. I've never heard of it being a requirement though.

[sojourner]

From your writings, it would also seem that your experience with Anapatists have been among the ultra conservative groups.
Obviously, they tend to focus more on the externals but they DO focus on evangelism as well.
In my experience they have been somewhat successful in attracting people from the outside.

[Sudsy]

From your writings, it would also seem that your experience with Anapatists have been among the ultra conservative groups.
Obviously, they tend to focus more on the externals but they DO focus on evangelism as well.
In my experience they have been somewhat successful in attracting people from the outside.

So what would your guess be from your experience as to what percent of believers in an ultra conservative church are attracting people to join them that previously were unchurched ?

Where I live the only Mennonite churches that are attracting outsiders (the unchurched) are those that are not 'conservative' in the Mennonite use of the term. I suspect both of these Mennonite churches would be slotted as 'liberal' or border line 'moderate' at best.

[Ernie]

From your writings, it would also seem that your experience with Anapatists have been among the ultra conservative groups.
Obviously, they tend to focus more on the externals but they DO focus on evangelism as well.
In my experience they have been somewhat successful in attracting people from the outside.

So what would your guess be from your experience as to what percent of believers in an ultra conservative church are attracting people to join them that previously were unchurched ?

Where I live the only Mennonite churches that are attracting outsiders (the unchurched) are those that are not 'conservative' in the Mennonite use of the term. I suspect both of these Mennonite churches would be slotted as 'liberal' or border line 'moderate' at best.

This is a question that is fine to keep putting in front of us.

And the question we will keep asking the moderates and progressives is, "What percentage of your posterity are serving the Lord in faithfulness and holiness of life?"

Both are important questions.

[Neto]

There is a subtle difference between the OP question (and thread title) and what is actually being discussed, as though the question is
Why have the (Plain) Anabaptists FAILED at Drawing the Masses into their congregations?

These are actually two quite different questions. Plain Anabaptists (and anabaptists in general) engage in lots of evangelistic efforts for which the stated objective is to "draw the Masses into the Body of Christ". There is a recognition that not all of these will want to join the congregations of those who built the path that they followed to become followers of Jesus, and that is OK (with us, and we also believe it to be OK with Jesus). Even the Old Order Amish engage in these efforts, and put absolutely no pressure on those they serve in this way to "become Amish". (MDS is an example of this. My father-in-law was heavily involved in MDS projects well before he left the Amish. And there is a testimony of God's love that is expressed in tangible ways though ministries of this kind. Prison ministry and jail visitation involves the verbal witness, but also provides a social and psychological blessing to the detainees.)

[Sudsy]

From your writings, it would also seem that your experience with Anapatists have been among the ultra conservative groups.
Obviously, they tend to focus more on the externals but they DO focus on evangelism as well.
In my experience they have been somewhat successful in attracting people from the outside.

So what would your guess be from your experience as to what percent of believers in an ultra conservative church are attracting people to join them that previously were unchurched ?

Where I live the only Mennonite churches that are attracting outsiders (the unchurched) are those that are not 'conservative' in the Mennonite use of the term. I suspect both of these Mennonite churches would be slotted as 'liberal' or border line 'moderate' at best.

This is a question that is fine to keep putting in front of us.

And the question we will keep asking the moderates and progressives is, "What percentage of your posterity are serving the Lord in faithfulness and holiness of life?"

Both are important questions.

Yes but I doubt the latter question about faithfuness and holiness of life is one that would be agreed on by all as to what this serving involves. Where would the line be drawn on when they are being faithful and holy and when they are not ? For instance, one may regard holiness as a separateness from the world in a physical way that Jesus was not. Another may regard holiness as being very involved with the world physically as Jesus was. It seems to me holiness then is to be very engaging with the world yet not being involved with the world in it's sinning. Thought ?

[Ernie]

Yes but I doubt the latter question about faithfuness and holiness of life is one that would be agreed on by all as to what this serving involves. Where would the line be drawn on when they are being faithful and holy and when they are not ? Thought ?

If we define faithfulness and holiness the way Christians in the NT did, and the way Christians commonly did for the first 200 years, that is a good place to start. (Early Anabaptists defined it similarly.)
And even in Christendom the next 1700 years, there are less things, but still many things that Christians commonly agreed were wrong. It is the last 100 years that morality has been very redefined.
If a person does not like what was commonly agreed upon the first 200 years, they could at least do what was commonly agreed upon the next 1700. That is at least better than what we have today in much of Christendom.

[Ernie]

There is a subtle difference between the OP question (and thread title) and what is actually being discussed, as though the question is
Why have the (Plain) Anabaptists FAILED at Drawing the Masses into their congregations?

These are actually two quite different questions. Plain Anabaptists (and anabaptists in general) engage in lots of evangelistic efforts for which the stated objective is to "draw the Masses into the Body of Christ". There is a recognition that not all of these will want to join the congregations of those who built the path that they followed to become followers of Jesus, and that is OK (with us, and we also believe it to be OK with Jesus). Even the Old Order Amish engage in these efforts, and put absolutely no pressure on those they serve in this way to "become Amish". (MDS is an example of this. My father-in-law was heavily involved in MDS projects well before he left the Amish. And there is a testimony of God's love that is expressed in tangible ways though ministries of this kind. Prison ministry and jail visitation involves the verbal witness, but also provides a social and psychological blessing to the detainees.)

Good distinction Neto. We have had Bible studies with dozens of people the last ten years and intend to do this until we no longer have strength or mind to do so.
Most attendees do not join an Anabaptist church. But our goal is to introduce people to their Creator, help them learn to know Him, show them how to follow Jesus, and demonstrate what church looks like. We leave the rest to the Holy Spirit.

[sojourner]

From your writings, it would also seem that your experience with Anapatists have been among the ultra conservative groups.
Obviously, they tend to focus more on the externals but they DO focus on evangelism as well.
In my experience they have been somewhat successful in attracting people from the outside.

So what would your guess be from your experience as to what percent of believers in an ultra conservative church are attracting people to join them that previously were unchurched ?

Where I live the only Mennonite churches that are attracting outsiders (the unchurched) are those that are not 'conservative' in the Mennonite use of the term. I suspect both of these Mennonite churches would be slotted as 'liberal' or border line 'moderate' at best.

To be clear, I was speaking about one church in particular because that is one of the few that I associated with.
I don't think conservative Anapatists keep track of the percentage of outsiders joining their ranks. That would be a bit weird.
This was a good many years ago. But there was 2 families and perhaps a handful of singles that joined.
As far as I know they and their children are still faithful. Most of the children are grown with families of their own.
I guess I was impressed because it didn't work out for me but obviously for others it was what they were looking for.
I share this because sometimes it seems like the perception is that the ultra conservatives exist only for themselves and do a poor job of evangelizing.

I suppose different Mennonite groups would have different results. I don't think I'm very familiar with the groups that you've mentioned before.

[Ernie]

If the goal is to see how many people we can get into heaven, I think quite a few old orders and ultra-conservatives probably do about as good as anyone, when you think of the number of descendants who get a good spiritual start in a greenhouse, and have a better chance of surviving spiritually.
I think it probably comes down to our goals/vision. Are our goals for the here and now, or do our goals include our posterity?

If the latter... it could look like this if families average 6 children who raise families, and "command their children and their households after them" like Abraham did.

2 parents - 6 children - 36 grandchildren - 216 great-grandchildren - 1296 great-great grandchildren - 7776 great-great-great grandchildren. Total =9,330 if they don't marry their third and fourth cousins. Not something at all to sneeze at.

BTW, If you have 10 such sets of parents in ten different places in the USA, that is nearly a million descendants. Sort of seems like reaching a MASS number of people to me.