Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
mrbilliam
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:24 pm
Affiliation: Beachy Amish

Re: Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

Post by mrbilliam »

Josh wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2024 8:25 am
But Matthew 28's Great Commission is NOT LAW, and is ignored, BARELY brought to cities, when it is a direct command of Jesus after he declared all of Heaven AND Earth to be under his authority. He said "Go ye therefore...".
Matt. 28 says to go to the “nations”, not cities. Anabaptists seem quite willing to go to all kinds of different nations and countries. They are also eager to reach sub nations inside America and Canada such as Navajo.

It’s true they haven’t set up a megachurch in downtown Dallas. The Bible doesn’t command such. Nonetheless they are in dense cities ranging from Minneapolis to the forests of Tennessee, across the plains of Texas, from Detroit down to Houston, and from NYC to L.A.

If Anabaptists never went out to the nations, they’d be confined to a hill in Switzerland and a few city blocks of Flanders.
So they went to:
1) Corinth
2) Galatia
3) Ephesus
4) Phillipi
5) Colossae
6) Thessolonica

"Nations" my friend means everywhere. It's where the people are at.

This shouldn't even be an argument you are making.
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mrbilliam
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:24 pm
Affiliation: Beachy Amish

Re: Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

Post by mrbilliam »

Soloist wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2024 5:44 am
mrbilliam wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 10:51 pm
Are you speaking of the Latin Vulgate? That's just a translation of the Bible.

You need to read HOW the books were canonized. At one time there were many bishops, and many books, who voted in and left out books that are in the Bible.

Those Bishops were part of the church of a combined Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox church called "The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church". (You can see it referenced in the Nicean Creed).
You apparently need to read up on the history with the Vulgate and Jerome’s unilateral decisions.
This doesn't have anything to do with my the thread.
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Soloist

Re: Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

Post by Soloist »

mrbilliam wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 6:17 pm
Soloist wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2024 5:44 am
mrbilliam wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 10:51 pm
Are you speaking of the Latin Vulgate? That's just a translation of the Bible.

You need to read HOW the books were canonized. At one time there were many bishops, and many books, who voted in and left out books that are in the Bible.

Those Bishops were part of the church of a combined Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox church called "The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church". (You can see it referenced in the Nicean Creed).
You apparently need to read up on the history with the Vulgate and Jerome’s unilateral decisions.
This doesn't have anything to do with my the thread.
You made it relevant by arguing canon.
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mrbilliam
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Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:24 pm
Affiliation: Beachy Amish

Re: Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

Post by mrbilliam »

NEW EXAMPLE as it JUST HAPPENED.

A moderate conservative Anabaptist church just had many members go on a mission trip to Tanzania.

What's wrong with this you ask? Nothing... And everything...

This church is approx 1 hour from a major city area (top 10 in the USA).

Why nothing is wrong with it:
1) Because we are suppose to reach all people globally with the message of Jesus. This is excellent!


Why everything is wrong with it: (note: There is nothing wrong with being poor)
1) The church ignores what is in their own back yard. A massive city. 1 hour drive. Nope. Half a globe away, yep.
2) Cultural similarities
a) English is in our cities. Not Swahili the most common language of Tanzania. Connecting through linguistics is vitally important for relationships. You are more likely to build relationships to people 1 hour away in a culture you understand, than HALF A WORLD away that takes a plane, boats, passports, hotels, and lots of money to see.
b) Here we can communicate and share Jesus in a native tongue in the cities. People actually understand what you are saying.
c) Here we can communicate to people of the city who have similar living standards. I've heard foreign missionaries refer to Africans as "poor little black people" and "poor little black kid'. That sterotype is ruined when somebody lives similar as you do. It places people on even surfaces for relationships.
d) The Tanzanians don't understand the challenges of being an American, our issues, our culture, and our way of life. We don't understand theirs. Being able to understand this and how it applies to Christ is helpful in building lasting relationships and discipleship. Sure you can "learn about it", but you probably haven't LIVED IT FOR YOUR ENTIRE LIFE.
e) Don't tap the glass when observing. The people of Tanzania (to a bunch of rich white American Mennonites) are "fascinating", but of course "not like us, and will never be like us".
f) Mennonites know that not one poor black person of Tanzania has a chance at all of coming back and "INFECTING" their rich (mostly white) comfort church. Most Mennonites would "say" they'd love to have them come, but really even if it happened, the Tanzanian would be VERY left out non-menno-background and odd.
g) Massive airline trip with layovers, hotels, food and travel expenses. 1 hour city is a 1/4 tank of gas.

2) Culturally, you have a poor black nation of Tanzania. (note again: There is nothing wrong with being poor)
a) A bunch of rich white people show up. This can create a monetary want over the want of Christ. Many attend services hoping to "get something". This is because a bunch of rich white Mennonites do not know their culture, NOR LIVE LIKE THE PEOPLE OF TANZANIA nor would want to. A real dedicated missionary will buy a home and live like the natives do, not come on a high horse patting them on the head from the observation deck.
b) Culturally they are not the same. Rich white American people and poor black African people have nothing culturally similar. It's an anomaly on each side to figure out. Mennos have a hard enough time dealing with Non-Mennonite background people of American culture.


AGAIN - There is nothing wrong with a foreign mission. Go live like the natives. Adopt their jobs. Adopt their currency. Adopt their standard of living. Speak their language. Don't just go and observe for a short while and have some stories to tell over a huge plate of fellowship meal desserts.


I'm being harsh purposely folks.
Why on Earth are Mennos so willing to go on a global trip to some Swahili speaking country when they haven't even touched their own back yard?

CAM Billboards are in that city though..... with no church to send callers to of course.

It's a hard reality.

We Anabaptists have FAILED at Reaching the Masses. We spend tons of money reaching foreign cultures that "don't threaten us", rather than starting churches in our own city back yards.


As an Anabaptist this truth hurts me a lot.
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ken_sylvania

Re: Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

Post by ken_sylvania »

mrbilliam wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:14 pm NEW EXAMPLE as it JUST HAPPENED.

A moderate conservative Anabaptist church just had many members go on a mission trip to Tanzania.

What's wrong with this you ask? Nothing... And everything...

This church is approx 1 hour from a major city area (top 10 in the USA).

Why nothing is wrong with it:
1) Because we are suppose to reach all people globally with the message of Jesus. This is excellent!


Why everything is wrong with it: (note: There is nothing wrong with being poor)
1) The church ignores what is in their own back yard. A massive city. 1 hour drive. Nope. Half a globe away, yep.
2) Cultural similarities
a) English is in our cities. Not Swahili the most common language of Tanzania. Connecting through linguistics is vitally important for relationships. You are more likely to build relationships to people 1 hour away in a culture you understand, than HALF A WORLD away that takes a plane, boats, passports, hotels, and lots of money to see.
b) Here we can communicate and share Jesus in a native tongue in the cities. People actually understand what you are saying.
c) Here we can communicate to people of the city who have similar living standards. I've heard foreign missionaries refer to Africans as "poor little black people" and "poor little black kid'. That sterotype is ruined when somebody lives similar as you do. It places people on even surfaces for relationships.
d) The Tanzanians don't understand the challenges of being an American, our issues, our culture, and our way of life. We don't understand theirs. Being able to understand this and how it applies to Christ is helpful in building lasting relationships and discipleship. Sure you can "learn about it", but you probably haven't LIVED IT FOR YOUR ENTIRE LIFE.
e) Don't tap the glass when observing. The people of Tanzania (to a bunch of rich white American Mennonites) are "fascinating", but of course "not like us, and will never be like us".
f) Mennonites know that not one poor black person of Tanzania has a chance at all of coming back and "INFECTING" their rich (mostly white) comfort church. Most Mennonites would "say" they'd love to have them come, but really even if it happened, the Tanzanian would be VERY left out non-menno-background and odd.
g) Massive airline trip with layovers, hotels, food and travel expenses. 1 hour city is a 1/4 tank of gas.

2) Culturally, you have a poor black nation of Tanzania. (note again: There is nothing wrong with being poor)
a) A bunch of rich white people show up. This can create a monetary want over the want of Christ. Many attend services hoping to "get something". This is because a bunch of rich white Mennonites do not know their culture, NOR LIVE LIKE THE PEOPLE OF TANZANIA nor would want to. A real dedicated missionary will buy a home and live like the natives do, not come on a high horse patting them on the head from the observation deck.
b) Culturally they are not the same. Rich white American people and poor black African people have nothing culturally similar. It's an anomaly on each side to figure out. Mennos have a hard enough time dealing with Non-Mennonite background people of American culture.


AGAIN - There is nothing wrong with a foreign mission. Go live like the natives. Adopt their jobs. Adopt their currency. Adopt their standard of living. Speak their language. Don't just go and observe for a short while and have some stories to tell over a huge plate of fellowship meal desserts.


I'm being harsh purposely folks.
Why on Earth are Mennos so willing to go on a global trip to some Swahili speaking country when they haven't even touched their own back yard?

CAM Billboards are in that city though..... with no church to send callers to of course.

It's a hard reality.

We Anabaptists have FAILED at Reaching the Masses. We spend tons of money reaching foreign cultures that "don't threaten us", rather than starting churches in our own city back yards.


As an Anabaptist this truth hurts me a lot.
Why are you wasting your time posting anonymously on a web forum instead of getting into your vehicle, driving an hour into the city, and actually DOING something about the problem?
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mrbilliam
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:24 pm
Affiliation: Beachy Amish

Re: Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

Post by mrbilliam »

(delete - formatting)
Last edited by mrbilliam on Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mrbilliam
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:24 pm
Affiliation: Beachy Amish

Re: Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

Post by mrbilliam »

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:22 pm
Why are you wasting your time posting anonymously on a web forum instead of getting into your vehicle, driving an hour into the city, and actually DOING something about the problem?
I do it every day. Join me.
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Soloist

Re: Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

Post by Soloist »

mrbilliam wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:26 pm
ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:22 pm
Why are you wasting your time posting anonymously on a web forum instead of getting into your vehicle, driving an hour into the city, and actually DOING something about the problem?
I do it every day. Join me.
Yeah, and people have asked what you’re doing and ask what you would suggest people actually do and you’ve just stuck with sweeping generic condemnations.
As for the whole going overseas to plant a mission and not doing it locally… I agree with you…
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Josh

Re: Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

Post by Josh »

mrbilliam wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:26 pm
ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:22 pm
Why are you wasting your time posting anonymously on a web forum instead of getting into your vehicle, driving an hour into the city, and actually DOING something about the problem?
I do it every day. Join me.
Ok, tell us then - what do you do?

I've already pointed out that for an example of a city like Dallas, there is a conservative Anabaptist congregation comfortably close by. It would be basically impossible to set up a normal conservative Anabaptist congregation closer into the city since most of us don't make the kind of high salaries required to live in a place like that.
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Bootstrap

Re: Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

Post by Bootstrap »

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:22 pmWhy are you wasting your time posting anonymously on a web forum instead of getting into your vehicle, driving an hour into the city, and actually DOING something about the problem?
Exactly.

For every person actively involved in serving, there are hundreds of people finding something wrong to complain about online. And from what I've seen, they rarely understand what they are criticizing all that well - if they did, they might find other things to criticize and improve. Most ministries see these things and keep trying to address them.
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