High Demand Religions?

[Soloist]

I trust those that were taught by the Apostles and don't consider them liars.
I trust that the Holy Spirit was guiding the Church as Jesus said He would, and that this same early Church comprised the Canon of Scriptures.
I believe the Scripture says the church is the pillar and ground of the truth not apart from Scripture, but Scripture truly states there were both oral and written teachings.
I believe Jesus when He said the falling away of the faith once delivered to the saints is just as he prophesied- at the END before His second coming, and not as some imply here, that the falling away happened in the beginning, which is not Scriptural. These should be obvious unless we don't want them to be.

Yet you can’t be part of this church.

You speak often of the value of the Old Testament, are you blind to the historical accounts? Faithful, children faithful and their children fell away?
I can trust the men the apostles taught, but their followers not so much. Also, none of these early church writings predate 500 AD… how do you know they are authentic? Why do we have different versions of a few of the writers? Why do we have writings by these authors branded as false?

[Valerie]

My query is not about the Catholic practice. It is a query as to how the variety of actively practicing Anabaptists interpret the Scripture and Early Church Fathers.

That was answered. As for the early church fathers, they were falible men and while we might read them, they don’t pass the level of commentary.

The “Ana”Baptists are 100% united on infant baptism being heresy.

According to Easton's Bible Dictionary, the word heresy comes from a Greek word, meaning a self-chosen opinion or the sect holding that opinion. Heresies came to be understood as self-chosen doctrines that do not originate from God.

There are numerous definitions of what heresy is and reading them it's obvious the heresy is not infant baptism.

The heresy was opposition to the Church throughout the world who practiced it, this Church started by the Apostles. No one here was there. No one in the Reformation era was there, but Anabaptists are among Protestants who disagree because they disagree & interpret differently than the worldwide Church and other denominations that DO believe in infant baptism, like Lutheran's & Presbyterians.

The fallible men comes much more towards the end as prophesied

[Valerie]

I trust those that were taught by the Apostles and don't consider them liars.
I trust that the Holy Spirit was guiding the Church as Jesus said He would, and that this same early Church comprised the Canon of Scriptures.
I believe the Scripture says the church is the pillar and ground of the truth not apart from Scripture, but Scripture truly states there were both oral and written teachings.
I believe Jesus when He said the falling away of the faith once delivered to the saints is just as he prophesied- at the END before His second coming, and not as some imply here, that the falling away happened in the beginning, which is not Scriptural. These should be obvious unless we don't want them to be.

Yet you can’t be part of this church.

You speak often of the value of the Old Testament, are you blind to the historical accounts? Faithful, children faithful and their children fell away?
I can trust the men the apostles taught, but their followers not so much. Also, none of these early church writings predate 500 AD… how do you know they are authentic? Why do we have different versions of a few of the writers? Why do we have writings by these authors branded as false?

They are first, second, 3rd century bishops, writers, theologians contending for the faith.
How do you know you can trust those were guided by the Holy Spirit when your sect arrived at their various conclusions? They certainly were not all on the same page from the start. Splits from the very beginning, Amish, Mennonite, Hutterite should be an obvious indication this was not the Holy Spirit but "reaction" & everyone doing what was right in their own eyes.

We were convinced about the Church baptizing infants & children but it took us not being stubborn to life long beliefs and prayer for help-
We didn't "stay" for other reasons besides this (for now) but I do admire the Anabaptists that were able to overcome their life long understanding & joined the Orthodox Church-

[Judas Maccabeus]

My query is not about the Catholic practice. It is a query as to how the variety of actively practicing Anabaptists interpret the Scripture and Early Church Fathers.

That was answered. As for the early church fathers, they were falible men and while we might read them, they don’t pass the level of commentary.

The “Ana”Baptists are 100% united on infant baptism being heresy.

A very insightful answer. I was essentially typing the same thing.

We do not have to really trouble ourselves with the second century fathers. They did not write inspires text, frequently by their own admission. They are interesting historically, but not authoritative.

Max, you know how we will answer this. Why do you keep asking the question?

[Judas Maccabeus]

I trust those that were taught by the Apostles and don't consider them liars.
I trust that the Holy Spirit was guiding the Church as Jesus said He would, and that this same early Church comprised the Canon of Scriptures.
I believe the Scripture says the church is the pillar and ground of the truth not apart from Scripture, but Scripture truly states there were both oral and written teachings.
I believe Jesus when He said the falling away of the faith once delivered to the saints is just as he prophesied- at the END before His second coming, and not as some imply here, that the falling away happened in the beginning, which is not Scriptural. These should be obvious unless we don't want them to be.

Yet you can’t be part of this church.

You speak often of the value of the Old Testament, are you blind to the historical accounts? Faithful, children faithful and their children fell away?
I can trust the men the apostles taught, but their followers not so much. Also, none of these early church writings predate 500 AD… how do you know they are authentic? Why do we have different versions of a few of the writers? Why do we have writings by these authors branded as false?

They are first, second, 3rd century bishops, writers, theologians contending for the faith.
How do you know you can trust those were guided by the Holy Spirit when your sect arrived at their various conclusions? They certainly were not all on the same page from the start. Splits from the very beginning, Amish, Mennonite, Hutterite should be an obvious indication this was not the Holy Spirit but "reaction" & everyone doing what was right in their own eyes.

We were convinced about the Church baptizing infants & children but it took us not being stubborn to life long beliefs and prayer for help-
We didn't "stay" for other reasons besides this (for now) but I do admire the Anabaptists that were able to overcome their life long understanding & joined the Orthodox Church-

Because we find its views heretical. Anabaptists have long regarded infant baptism as the greatest abomination of popery. Eastern Orthodoxy is essentially a fusion of church and state.

The big question is_If the Orthodox Church is the “one true church” why don’t you join it?

[Soloist]

They are first, second, 3rd century bishops, writers, theologians contending for the faith.
How do you know you can trust those were guided by the Holy Spirit when your sect arrived at their various conclusions?

Because what they say lines up with scripture.
I don’t believe blindly a group of people just because they had hand laid on by someone else who had hands laid on, etc., etc…. I weigh what is said against scripture. Paul praised people for doing this.

They certainly were not all on the same page from the start. Splits from the very beginning, Amish, Mennonite, Hutterite should be an obvious indication this was not the Holy Spirit but "reaction" & everyone doing what was right in their own eyes.

When the Lutherans, Reformed and Catholic were busy killing them off, I give them room for coming to different conclusions. What is painfully obvious though, all three of those groups agree on non-resistance and not baptizing babies. God doesn’t say we all have to administrate the same way.
If you say splits, define not following the Holy Spirit, I would say an even stronger indication is killing Christians… I rest my case.

We were convinced about the Church baptizing infants & children but it took us not being stubborn to life long beliefs and prayer for help-
We didn't "stay" for other reasons besides this (for now) but I do admire the Anabaptists that were able to overcome their life long understanding & joined the Orthodox Church-

I admire my friends who have left the orthodox and the Catholics for overcoming lifelong heresy.

I really don’t understand why you and Max persist in arguing on an Anabaptist forum about things that are well understood to be our belief. We don’t go to Catholic or orthodox forums and do this. You and Max have literally rehashed these conversations a number of times.

We will continue to push back against heresy whenever it tries to be spread and repeatedly call it what it is.

[Josh]

An Anabaptists that trades in God’s gospel of peace for Kirill’s false gospel of blessing nuclear bombs and a pointless war that’s left 1 million dead is someone who has abandoned not just the faith, but has walked away from Christ himself, and now worships false gods found in icons of gold, silver, iron, plastic, and paper. A truly sad end indeed.

May we remember to pray for such souls to repent, follow the truth again, and be born again.

[Valerie]

An Anabaptists that trades in God’s gospel of peace for Kirill’s false gospel of blessing nuclear bombs and a pointless war that’s left 1 million dead is someone who has abandoned not just the faith, but has walked away from Christ himself, and now worships false gods found in icons of gold, silver, iron, plastic, and paper. A truly sad end indeed.

May we remember to pray for such souls to repent, follow the truth again, and be born again.

God did not tell Israel to forsake their True faith when they had evil kings and sin in the camp. The true faith remains the true faith in spite of wolves that come in.

Mormons claim persecution and were killed. Did that make them the true faith- hardly.

You cannot equate good behavior and good intentions flowing Scripture as the same things as "knowing".

The description of heresy is what the Anabaptists did- they were a small faction rising up to destroy and truly the RC needed to repent. However, infant baptism is NOT heresy. Period.

[Valerie]

Yet you can’t be part of this church.

You speak often of the value of the Old Testament, are you blind to the historical accounts? Faithful, children faithful and their children fell away?
I can trust the men the apostles taught, but their followers not so much. Also, none of these early church writings predate 500 AD… how do you know they are authentic? Why do we have different versions of a few of the writers? Why do we have writings by these authors branded as false?

They are first, second, 3rd century bishops, writers, theologians contending for the faith.
How do you know you can trust those were guided by the Holy Spirit when your sect arrived at their various conclusions? They certainly were not all on the same page from the start. Splits from the very beginning, Amish, Mennonite, Hutterite should be an obvious indication this was not the Holy Spirit but "reaction" & everyone doing what was right in their own eyes.

We were convinced about the Church baptizing infants & children but it took us not being stubborn to life long beliefs and prayer for help-
We didn't "stay" for other reasons besides this (for now) but I do admire the Anabaptists that were able to overcome their life long understanding & joined the Orthodox Church-

Because we find its views heretical. Anabaptists have long regarded infant baptism as the greatest abomination of popery. Eastern Orthodoxy is essentially a fusion of church and state.

The big question is_If the Orthodox Church is the “one true church” why don’t you join it?

They hold the true "interpretations" which I certainly trust more than Reformation era. Celestial flesh? Really?
Sorry, if the Anabaptists were the Church God waited for for 1500 years I don't think the representation of truth and being of one mind is at all close to trustworthy in interpretation.

No I came here as a seeker to Anabaptism, that was my direction long ago- in fact it was an Orthodox who led me here, knowing I was a seeker.
The forum and more searching for truth is why I don't agree the Holy Spirit guided Anabaptists in interpretation but they are very good at many things Christian, but I do know they are not free from grievous sin among them too, not widely known to the public.

[Josh]

Valerie,

What I am protesting is joining a faith where priests and bishops bless nuclear bombs, tanks, and soldiers going to the battlefield to kill Ukrainians for no good reason. That is entirely, 100% wrong.

I am also protesting a faith where priests and bishops bless drones, bombs, ammunition, artillery, and soldiers going to the battlefield to kill Russians.

Do you not comprehend how utterly anti-Christian it is for the Eastern Orthodox to both be blessing soldiers to go and kill each other?