High Demand Religions?

[Jazman]

Approximately half EOs are in Russia. Christianity was spread to Russia in 954 A D.- That means the other half is spread throughout, remembering it existed over 900 years before turning many to Christ in Russia. We can judge all EOs by Russian leaders.

If that is so, the verdict is clear.

Reading “Between Heaven and Russia:” is quite an eye opener. The author, an OCA Member described conversion to Russian Orthodoxy as “Political conversion.” Suggested reading.

Sounds interesting. In a nutshell, what did that "conversion" entail?
I've observed some RO in Russia many years ago and was intrigued... but with current events and all, I'm more worried about them than intrigued.

[ken_sylvania]

So you saw them eat on fasting days. And they are allowed to. I realize most of Christian demons put more emphasis on eating, than on fasting. The Church teaches fasting. It is though, left up to the individuals not a rule, for example Amish that have rules about cell phones as we watch them sneak & hide on theirs. That type of exception.

Those Amish either are rebellious children, their parents don’t care, non-members or rebellious members. Either way, they are no better then the Orthodox pretending to be something they aren’t.

I guess that's why Valerie refers to them as "Christian demons."

[Sudsy]

The 'religion' I was raised in, Pentecostalism, had some certain 'demands' but I guess they would be better called 'high expectations', one of them being tithing and defined as '10% of gross income'. I heard many sermons on this that the 10% of gross income was the base level for giving and additional to that were 'offerings' which had many requests to support.

I remember my friend getting quite upset by an oldtimer who came over to pray for him at a prayer meeting and asked God to 'teach my buddy to tithe'. My buddy was already a tither and additional giver and he took it as quite an offense. Besides how did this oldtimer know anything about his giving as what one gives is not openly known. I told him I think the oldtimer meant that if he wasn't tithing that God should tell him to start. This struck me funny that someone would pray for another like this.

But perhaps this belief and practise is one reason that this church is so large with multiple paid pastors and other 'bells and whistles' as they seem to take in much money and pay off any loans quite quickly.

I also remember as a youth when an 'evangelist' came for a week's meetings and near the end of the week he did not think enough had been given in offerings so in a meeting he took one offering after another, with a little 'lecture' in between, about giving until he was satisfied with the total given. Now that, to me, was really 'high demand'. Me thinks he needed to look at 2 Cor 9:7 as I don't think some of those offerings were from 'cheerful' givers.

[MaxPC]

I see another thread that has deteriorated into “us vs them” lists of accusations: “we are better than x, y, and z because (fill in the blank).” It reminds me of Luke 18.

I have lived long enough to be able to say that ALL churches have systemic and personal problems with sin, hypocrisy and brokenness “ 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Romans 3.”

I have also seen and met some very good people from all of these churches: they may even be called holy in my lexicon.

I do not believe that it is fair to diminish the good that has been done by these individuals simply because they are a member of a faith group that one dislikes. I prefer to view the positive fruit of these good people and how they have lived out the teachings of their church in the hope of hearing: ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ Matthew 25:23.

God looks at each individual; and whether that individual has been faithful in his discipleship walk. It would be a wonderful world if the world’s 2 billion Christians were so busy trying to do God’s Will in their own daily walk that they did not have time to be hostile and aggressive towards each other. They would be like the tax collector rather than the Pharisee of Jesus’ parable in Luke 18:

9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[a] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

[Judas Maccabeus]

If that is so, the verdict is clear.

Reading “Between Heaven and Russia:” is quite an eye opener. The author, an OCA Member described conversion to Russian Orthodoxy as “Political conversion.” Suggested reading.

Sounds interesting. In a nutshell, what did that "conversion" entail?
I've observed some RO in Russia many years ago and was intrigued... but with current events and all, I'm more worried about them than intrigued.

Conservative political and cultural ideas driving the conversions more than religious ideas. The Priest trying to downplay the political with mixed success. How Russian Orthodoxy of the ROCOR type fits in with Appalachian spirituality.

Interesting read. It was pre-invasion, so I wonder what impact this has had.

[MaxPC]

I see another thread that has deteriorated into “us vs them” lists of accusations: “we are better than x, y, and z because (fill in the blank).” It reminds me of Luke 18.

I have lived long enough to be able to say that ALL churches have systemic and personal problems with sin, hypocrisy and brokenness “ 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Romans 3.”

I have also seen and met some very good people from all of these churches: they may even be called holy in my lexicon.

I do not believe that it is fair to diminish the good that has been done by these individuals simply because they are a member of a faith group that one dislikes. I prefer to view the positive fruit of these good people and how they have lived out the teachings of their church in the hope of hearing: ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ Matthew 25:23.

God looks at each individual; and whether that individual has been faithful in his discipleship walk. It would be a wonderful world if the world’s 2 billion Christians were so busy trying to do God’s Will in their own daily walk that they did not have time to be hostile and aggressive towards each other. They would be like the tax collector rather than the Pharisee of Jesus’ parable in Luke 18:

9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[a] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

I have noticed that Luke 18:9-14 reads the same in all of the Bible translations.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I see another thread that has deteriorated into “us vs them” lists of accusations: “we are better than x, y, and z because (fill in the blank).” It reminds me of Luke 18.

I have lived long enough to be able to say that ALL churches have systemic and personal problems with sin, hypocrisy and brokenness “ 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Romans 3.”

I have also seen and met some very good people from all of these churches: they may even be called holy in my lexicon.

I do not believe that it is fair to diminish the good that has been done by these individuals simply because they are a member of a faith group that one dislikes. I prefer to view the positive fruit of these good people and how they have lived out the teachings of their church in the hope of hearing: ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ Matthew 25:23.

God looks at each individual; and whether that individual has been faithful in his discipleship walk. It would be a wonderful world if the world’s 2 billion Christians were so busy trying to do God’s Will in their own daily walk that they did not have time to be hostile and aggressive towards each other. They would be like the tax collector rather than the Pharisee of Jesus’ parable in Luke 18:

9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[a] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Come on, Max, they are very much like you all.

There is a minimum standard that must be met, but there is always more:

Daily mass
Evening adoration of the host
First Friday mass
Wearing various religious paraphernalia, the green scapular, ect.
Ladies of the sodality
Sacred heart society
Knights of Columbus
The list could go on.

It is the same for any works based religion. There is always more. There is no end.


For us, it is only Jesus. Jesus will satisfy.

[Josh]

Come on, Max, they are very much like you all.

There is a minimum standard that must be met, but there is always more:

Daily mass
Evening adoration of the host
First Friday mass
Wearing various religious paraphernalia, the green scapular, ect.
Ladies of the sodality
Sacred heart society
Knights of Columbus
The list could go on.

It is the same for any works based religion. There is always more. There is no end.


For us, it is only Jesus. Jesus will satisfy.

And interesting how in works-based religion, there seem to be very few of the works Jesus taught us we should actually be doing.

[MaxPC]

I see another thread that has deteriorated into “us vs them” lists of accusations: “we are better than x, y, and z because (fill in the blank).” It reminds me of Luke 18.

I have lived long enough to be able to say that ALL churches have systemic and personal problems with sin, hypocrisy and brokenness “ 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Romans 3.”

I have also seen and met some very good people from all of these churches: they may even be called holy in my lexicon.

I do not believe that it is fair to diminish the good that has been done by these individuals simply because they are a member of a faith group that one dislikes. I prefer to view the positive fruit of these good people and how they have lived out the teachings of their church in the hope of hearing: ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ Matthew 25:23.

God looks at each individual; and whether that individual has been faithful in his discipleship walk. It would be a wonderful world if the world’s 2 billion Christians were so busy trying to do God’s Will in their own daily walk that they did not have time to be hostile and aggressive towards each other. They would be like the tax collector rather than the Pharisee of Jesus’ parable in Luke 18:

9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[a] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Come on, Max, they are very much like you all.

There is a minimum standard that must be met, but there is always more:

Not required, only suggested/recommended to grow in faith-Daily mass
Not required, only suggested/recommended to grow in faith-Evening adoration of the host
Not required, only suggested/recommended to grow in faith-First Friday mass
Not required at all-personal choice-Wearing various religious paraphernalia, the green scapular, ect.
Not required at all-charitable social club-Ladies of the sodality
Not required at all-charitable social club-Sacred heart society
Not required at all-charitable social club-Knights of Columbus
...

It is the same for any works based religion. There is always more. There is no end.

All of the items of this list are neither mandated nor required by the RCC. They are optional activities and pieties; they are not minimum standards as you claim.

For us, it is only Jesus. Jesus will satisfy.

Are you saying that EVERYONE within your group follows Jesus perfectly? Are you saying that Bible studies are optional? Attending church? Charitable outreach?

[Jazman]

Reading “Between Heaven and Russia:” is quite an eye opener. The author, an OCA Member described conversion to Russian Orthodoxy as “Political conversion.” Suggested reading.

Sounds interesting. In a nutshell, what did that "conversion" entail?
I've observed some RO in Russia many years ago and was intrigued... but with current events and all, I'm more worried about them than intrigued.

Conservative political and cultural ideas driving the conversions more than religious ideas. The Priest trying to downplay the political with mixed success. How Russian Orthodoxy of the ROCOR type fits in with Appalachian spirituality.

Interesting read. It was pre-invasion, so I wonder what impact this has had.

Ah, that makes sense and seems to fit what I observed as well, in Russia too.