mrbilliam wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 5:51 pm
Eastern Orthodox with 330+ Million members
40 Day fasts
Fasting Wednesday & Friday
Often head coverings/full coverings
Confession once a week.
Communion once a week (1 entire community shared cup and everybody gets communion from the same spoon)
Relic veneration
Icon veneration
Midnight vigils
Morning vigils
Sunrise vigils
You don't get to "give your opinion" about theology.
Veneration of the priest/bishops hand.
3 kisses on the greeting (Holy Kiss)
Also knowing the Bible, but most of church history.
This is what is on offer. I grew up with these people.
Most of them did little to none of this, but they had really good festivals. How do you think I knew that they did not fast on Wednesday and Fridays? Easy, had lunch with them
Wednesdays and Fridays are their fasting days but it's not totally fasting from food. It's certain foods. It is also not a "requirement" - The Church started those fasting days in the early days of the Church so they would have different fasting days than the Jews. When we were visiting EO they said some are strict about fasting, some are not, it's voluntary and they are not to judge each other about it. But as a Church, those are fasting days if one desires to, their stricter gadts are during Lent and Advent season before Christmas. On Sundays after Church most have fellowship eating together of some kind which is nice.
It can be discouraging to witness how EO still has the deposit of the faith, original teachings and interpretations, etc yet seems to have allowed worldliness to influence the people. Our EO friends who are drivers for the Amish,, do not attend EO church anymore for that reason, they are extremely "plain" EO, their daughters dress are more modest than many Anabaptists (example, sleeves have to be below elbow, no printed material, head coverings "really" cover.)
Valerie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:02 pm
Approximately half EOs are in Russia. Christianity was spread to Russia in 954 A D.- That means the other half is spread throughout, remembering it existed over 900 years before turning many to Christ in Russia. We can judge all EOs by Russian leaders.
If that is so, the verdict is clear.
Reading “Between Heaven and Russia:” is quite an eye opener. The author, an OCA Member described conversion to Russian Orthodoxy as “Political conversion.” Suggested reading.
mrbilliam wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 5:51 pm
Eastern Orthodox with 330+ Million members
40 Day fasts
Fasting Wednesday & Friday
Often head coverings/full coverings
Confession once a week.
Communion once a week (1 entire community shared cup and everybody gets communion from the same spoon)
Relic veneration
Icon veneration
Midnight vigils
Morning vigils
Sunrise vigils
You don't get to "give your opinion" about theology.
Veneration of the priest/bishops hand.
3 kisses on the greeting (Holy Kiss)
Also knowing the Bible, but most of church history.
This is what is on offer. I grew up with these people.
Most of them did little to none of this, but they had really good festivals. How do you think I knew that they did not fast on Wednesday and Fridays? Easy, had lunch with them
Wednesdays and Fridays are their fasting days but it's not totally fasting from food. It's certain foods. It is also not a "requirement" - The Church started those fasting days in the early days of the Church so they would have different fasting days than the Jews. When we were visiting EO they said some are strict about fasting, some are not, it's voluntary and they are not to judge each other about it. But as a Church, those are fasting days if one desires to, their stricter gadts are during Lent and Advent season before Christmas. On Sundays after Church most have fellowship eating together of some kind which is nice.
It can be discouraging to witness how EO still has the deposit of the faith, original teachings and interpretations, etc yet seems to have allowed worldliness to influence the people. Our EO friends who are drivers for the Amish,, do not attend EO church anymore for that reason, they are extremely "plain" EO, their daughters dress are more modest than many Anabaptists (example, sleeves have to be below elbow, no printed material, head coverings "really" cover.)
I well know what I saw. Religion simply did not play a significant part in any of their lives.
You are trying to turn an exception into the rule.
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:35 am
This is what is on offer. I grew up with these people.
Most of them did little to none of this, but they had really good festivals. How do you think I knew that they did not fast on Wednesday and Fridays? Easy, had lunch with them
Wednesdays and Fridays are their fasting days but it's not totally fasting from food. It's certain foods. It is also not a "requirement" - The Church started those fasting days in the early days of the Church so they would have different fasting days than the Jews. When we were visiting EO they said some are strict about fasting, some are not, it's voluntary and they are not to judge each other about it. But as a Church, those are fasting days if one desires to, their stricter gadts are during Lent and Advent season before Christmas. On Sundays after Church most have fellowship eating together of some kind which is nice.
It can be discouraging to witness how EO still has the deposit of the faith, original teachings and interpretations, etc yet seems to have allowed worldliness to influence the people. Our EO friends who are drivers for the Amish,, do not attend EO church anymore for that reason, they are extremely "plain" EO, their daughters dress are more modest than many Anabaptists (example, sleeves have to be below elbow, no printed material, head coverings "really" cover.)
I well know what I saw. Religion simply did not play a significant part in any of their lives.
You are trying to turn an exception into the rule.
So you saw them eat on fasting days. And they are allowed to. I realize most of Christian demons put more emphasis on eating, than on fasting. The Church teaches fasting. It is though, left up to the individuals not a rule, for example Amish that have rules about cell phones as we watch them sneak & hide on theirs. That type of exception.
Valerie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 5:25 am
So you saw them eat on fasting days. And they are allowed to. I realize most of Christian demons put more emphasis on eating, than on fasting. The Church teaches fasting. It is though, left up to the individuals not a rule, for example Amish that have rules about cell phones as we watch them sneak & hide on theirs. That type of exception.
Those Amish either are rebellious children, their parents don’t care, non-members or rebellious members. Either way, they are no better then the Orthodox pretending to be something they aren’t.
Valerie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:44 amIt can be discouraging to witness how EO still has the deposit of the faith, original teachings and interpretations, etc yet seems to have allowed worldliness to influence the people.
Valerie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 5:25 am
So you saw them eat on fasting days. And they are allowed to. I realize most of Christian demons put more emphasis on eating, than on fasting. The Church teaches fasting. It is though, left up to the individuals not a rule, for example Amish that have rules about cell phones as we watch them sneak & hide on theirs. That type of exception.
Those Amish either are rebellious children, their parents don’t care, non-members or rebellious members. Either way, they are no better then the Orthodox pretending to be something they aren’t.
Of course you would say that. Why are Amish not Mennonites? Why are Mennonites not Amish-we know what began the Amish tribe during the Reformation. Why did my friends Dad say when his son left Amish to be Mennonite "I was hoping we would all be in heaven together" (perhaps not word for word, but his point was his son was lost since he left to join Mennonites)
Who knows, hypocrisy is in all churches. You say EO is hypocritical - I had a forum member tell me via pm that he left Mennonites because of all the sexual impunity stories he knew of, some have been discussed here. In German village, Holmes County, they have a flyer posted on bulletin board for people to get help due to the sexual abuse "in our churches". It is a well known fact. What kind of witness is that, that is on a public bulletin board for all to see?
Last edited by Valerie on Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Valerie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:44 amIt can be discouraging to witness how EO still has the deposit of the faith, original teachings and interpretations, etc yet seems to have allowed worldliness to influence the people.
Valerie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 5:25 am
So you saw them eat on fasting days. And they are allowed to. I realize most of Christian demons put more emphasis on eating, than on fasting. The Church teaches fasting. It is though, left up to the individuals not a rule, for example Amish that have rules about cell phones as we watch them sneak & hide on theirs. That type of exception.
Those Amish either are rebellious children, their parents don’t care, non-members or rebellious members. Either way, they are no better then the Orthodox pretending to be something they aren’t.
Of course you would say that. Why are Amish not Mennonites? Why are Mennonites not Amish-we know what began the Amish tribe during the Reformation. Why did my friends Dad say when his son left Amish to be Mennonite "I was hoping we would all be in heaven together" (perhaps not word for word, but his point was his son was lost since he left to join Mennonites)
Who knows, hypocrisy is in all churches. You say EO is hypocritical - I had a forum member tell me via pm that he left Mennonites because of all the sexual impunity stories he knew of, some have been discussed here. In German village, Holmes County, they have a flyer posted on bulletin board for people to get help due to the sexual abuse "in our churches". It is a well known fact. What kind of witness is that, that is on a public bulletin board for all to see?
It seems quite odd to choose a sinful lifestyle because other people in your church are engaging in (different) sins.
And would you prefer such problems be covered up and hidden, instead of being on a bulletin board?
Valerie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 am
Of course you would say that. Why are Amish not Mennonites? Why are Mennonites no Amish-we k ow what began the Amish tribe during the Reformation. Why did my friends Dad say when his son left Amish to be Mennonite "I was hoping we would all be in heaven together" (perhaps not word for word, but his point was his son was lost since he left to join Mennonites)
Ancient history at this point. I don’t know why he said that, I know nothing of the details of why or what.
Who knows, hypocrisy is on all churches. You say EO is hypocritical - I had a forum member tell me via pm that he left Mennonites because of all the sexual impunity stories he knew of, some have been discussed here. I German village, Holmes County, they have a flyer posted on bulletin board for people to get help due to the sexual abuse "in our churches". It is a well known fact. What kind of witness is that, that a yet is on a public bulletin board for all to see?
It’s a horrible witness. Any church that doesn’t address it is apostate.
EO is judged as a whole due to structuring of leadership and overall organization. Amish and Mennonites are judged on an individual level. Don’t confuse the differences. Yes perhaps people judge the Mennonites off of the Amish or bad witnesses or judge us off of the Mormons… but it’s not equivalent to a church like EO or Catholic that has systemic problems and doesn’t address them. The covering up sin should be the exception not the norm in any church. Ignoring sin should be the exception not the norm. When one has to defend a group by using exceptions… that speaks for itself.