Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

[ohio jones]

Compare also with the Spanish Catholic church history of converting thousands in Central and South America under pain of death. I dare say that without the history of conversion by murder, the Catholic church in the Western Hemisphere would be nothing.

Or in Europe, where everyone was already "converted," combating conversion by inquisition and interdict. The weapons of our church planting are the plow, not the sword.

[Josh]

There are very few metro areas in America that don't have at least one plain Anabaptist church within a reasonable drive somewhere in the city, suburbs, or exurbs. Here are just a few examples:

- Cleveland: AC church within city limits (6 miles from centre of dowtown); multiple AC churches in western suburbs; large number of plain churches 1 hour drive south
- Columbus: small AC church; large plain community with multiple types of plain churches in Plain City, a suburb 35 minutes from downtown
- Sacramento: large Holdeman community 1 hour north of many suburbs
- Los Angeles: multiple AC churches throughout the city including at least 1 inside cit limits; Holdeman mission in Anaheim (suburb)
- NYC: multiple plain churches (Holdemans in Manhattan/Harlem; intermediate-conservative group in Bronx; BMA type of group in Brooklyn). All easily accessible by subway.
- Denver: Holdeman church in northern suburbs; I believe there are other plain groups as well; Charity type of church in Cheyenne; Holdeman mission and guest house located in the city
- Chicago: Holdeman mission right by the airport; multiple AC churches
- Miami: Holdeman mission
- Detroit: intermediate-conservative mission
- Philadelphia: small mission church; within 1 hour of multiple plain churches
- Phoenix: Holdeman churches
- Toronto: Holdeman mission; large plain community with many types of churches in eastern suburbs in the Kitchener/Waterloo area
- Minneapolis: AC church; Holdeman church an hour west (short drive from western suburbs) in Eau Claire; Hutterite community an hour south (short drive from southeastern suburbs)
- Baltimore: Keystone church within city limits
- Austin: Beachy church in Bastrop (Bastrop is essentially an Austin exurb suburb now)
- Dallas/Fort Worth: various church groups in the Dallas exurbs
- Louisville: Plain community 1 hour away in Indiana; Amish, Charity, Holdeman churches.
- Nashville: multiple communities in virtually every direction, such as Muddy Pond to the east about an hour
- Montréal: Holdeman mission; Holdeman church in Roxton Falls an hour away (both are French-language congregations)
- Winnipeg: Charity type of church and school located within city in a former madrassah

In short, the message that plain Anabaptists just won't locate within cities isn't true. There is a variety of such churches. In city life in America, it is also completely normal for people to drive an hour to church, school, shopping, sporting events, jobs, and so forth, and if we consider what is within an hour radius, there are even more options.

The list above is just what I know of. There are probably many more.

[Ken]

There are very few metro areas in America that don't have at least one plain Anabaptist church within a reasonable drive somewhere in the city, suburbs, or exurbs. Here are just a few examples:

- Cleveland: AC church within city limits (6 miles from centre of dowtown); multiple AC churches in western suburbs; large number of plain churches 1 hour drive south
- Columbus: small AC church; large plain community with multiple types of plain churches in Plain City, a suburb 35 minutes from downtown
- Sacramento: large Holdeman community 1 hour north of many suburbs
- Los Angeles: multiple AC churches throughout the city including at least 1 inside cit limits; Holdeman mission in Anaheim (suburb)
- NYC: multiple plain churches (Holdemans in Manhattan/Harlem; intermediate-conservative group in Bronx; BMA type of group in Brooklyn). All easily accessible by subway.
- Denver: Holdeman church in northern suburbs; I believe there are other plain groups as well; Charity type of church in Cheyenne; Holdeman mission and guest house located in the city
- Chicago: Holdeman mission right by the airport; multiple AC churches
- Miami: Holdeman mission
- Detroit: intermediate-conservative mission
- Philadelphia: small mission church; within 1 hour of multiple plain churches
- Phoenix: Holdeman churches
- Toronto: Holdeman mission; large plain community with many types of churches in eastern suburbs in the Kitchener/Waterloo area
- Minneapolis: AC church; Holdeman church an hour west (short drive from western suburbs) in Eau Claire; Hutterite community an hour south (short drive from southeastern suburbs)
- Baltimore: Keystone church within city limits
- Austin: Beachy church in Bastrop (Bastrop is essentially an Austin exurb suburb now)
- Dallas/Fort Worth: various church groups in the Dallas exurbs
- Louisville: Plain community 1 hour away in Indiana; Amish, Charity, Holdeman churches.
- Nashville: multiple communities in virtually every direction, such as Muddy Pond to the east about an hour
- Montréal: Holdeman mission; Holdeman church in Roxton Falls an hour away (both are French-language congregations)
- Winnipeg: Charity type of church and school located within city in a former madrassah

In short, the message that plain Anabaptists just won't locate within cities isn't true. There is a variety of such churches. In city life in America, it is also completely normal for people to drive an hour to church, school, shopping, sporting events, jobs, and so forth, and if we consider what is within an hour radius, there are even more options.

The list above is just what I know of. There are probably many more.

Your post kind of makes the point. Half of your examples are rural churches that just happen to be somewhat near major cities. Just to cite one example. You list the Beachy Amish church in Bastrop TX which is actually on a rural road outside of Bastrop. People in Austin are not going to drive 30 miles out of town to find a church on a rural country road that is mostly attended by local farm families. This is not an urban church and it isn’t an Austin church: https://gracemennonitefellowship.org/

[Ernie]

Are you saying that inner cities are not walkable, or what is your point of the first paragraph?

Mission in my context, would be people living in the neighborhood or city that they are trying to reach. Not the sort where people come in for a bit on the weekend.

Careful. We're about to have another thread about zoning.

[Ernie]

Your post kind of makes the point. Half of your examples are rural churches that just happen to be somewhat near major cities. Just to cite one example. You list the Beachy Amish church in Bastrop TX which is actually on a rural road outside of Bastrop. People in Austin are not going to drive 30 miles out of town to find a church on a rural country road that is mostly attended by local farm families. This is not an urban church and it isn’t an Austin church: https://gracemennonitefellowship.org/

Most Anabaptist churches that start "outreach" churches hope that a family or two or three from a nearby city will want to join their church over the next 25 years. If not, it's disappointing, but it's not a big deal.

[RZehr]

Are you saying that inner cities are not walkable, or what is your point of the first paragraph?

Mission in my context, would be people living in the neighborhood or city that they are trying to reach. Not the sort where people come in for a bit on the weekend.

Careful. We're about to have another thread about zoning.

We can’t have churches in the city because they aren’t zoned for that?

On a more factual note, in Oregon we are prohibited from building churches in the country on farmland. The last two churches I’ve been involved with building, one was inside city limits, and one is inside the Urban Growth Boundary on land zoned residential.

So with time, you will see more and more churches being built in town, and none built in the country in Oregon.

[Josh]

Your post kind of makes the point. Half of your examples are rural churches that just happen to be somewhat near major cities. Just to cite one example. You list the Beachy Amish church in Bastrop TX which is actually on a rural road outside of Bastrop. People in Austin are not going to drive 30 miles out of town to find a church on a rural country road that is mostly attended by local farm families. This is not an urban church and it isn’t an Austin church: https://gracemennonitefellowship.org/

I was last in Bastrop in 2019. It is a suburb of Austin now, and the area around it is getting developed. The downtown area is exorbitant now. Tons of people have moved in since 2019.

People in Austin and other places regularly drive 30 miles (or an hour) to go to church.

Other churches I listed are in the city limits of the largest city in the metro, like NYC, LA, Cleveland, and the missions in Denver, Houston, Miami, and other places.

[ohio jones]

Just to cite one example.

Predictably, the example cited is from Texas.

People in Austin are not going to drive 30 miles out of town to find a church on a rural country road that is mostly attended by local farm families.

They don't have to. It's only 25 miles from downtown, according to Google Maps, which I'm sure was consulted. Depending on where "out of town" begins (maybe around the airport), around 20 miles out of town.

You must be quite familiar with that particular church to state that it's mostly attended by local farm families. Seems a bit fishy to me.

[Ken]

Your post kind of makes the point. Half of your examples are rural churches that just happen to be somewhat near major cities. Just to cite one example. You list the Beachy Amish church in Bastrop TX which is actually on a rural road outside of Bastrop. People in Austin are not going to drive 30 miles out of town to find a church on a rural country road that is mostly attended by local farm families. This is not an urban church and it isn’t an Austin church: https://gracemennonitefellowship.org/

Most Anabaptist churches that start "outreach" churches hope that a family or two or three from a nearby city will want to join their church over the next 25 years. If not, it's disappointing, but it's not a big deal.

Sure. OK. But the population of just Texas is 30 million people. A family or two or three in 25 years is just making the OPs point. And note. I’m in no way criticizing this particular church. I’m just pointing out that it doesn’t represent Anabaptists expanding to the masses. And neither do other small rural churches that just happen to be within an hours drive of some larger city.

[Ernie]

Your post kind of makes the point. Half of your examples are rural churches that just happen to be somewhat near major cities. Just to cite one example. You list the Beachy Amish church in Bastrop TX which is actually on a rural road outside of Bastrop. People in Austin are not going to drive 30 miles out of town to find a church on a rural country road that is mostly attended by local farm families. This is not an urban church and it isn’t an Austin church: https://gracemennonitefellowship.org/

Most Anabaptist churches that start "outreach" churches hope that a family or two or three from a nearby city will want to join their church over the next 25 years. If not, it's disappointing, but it's not a big deal.

Sure. OK. But the population of just Texas is 30 million people. A family or two or three in 25 years is just making the OPs point. And note. I’m in no way criticizing this particular church. I’m just pointing out that it doesn’t represent Anabaptists expanding to the masses.

Yes, I was trying to affirm the OP's point by what I wrote.