Discussion topic #1, bis: The Great Banquet.

[Josh]

This is from a list of scriptures Ernie suggested he would like to see conservative Anabaptists discuss more.

Do not discuss politics in this thread; if you need to, please start a thread in the Politics subforum. Do not discuss the government. Do not discuss government policy. Please narrow your focus to discussion from a Christian and Anabaptist perspective.

He said also to the man who had invited him, “When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers[a] or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. 13 But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”

Let's discuss this.

I was not able to find any crippled, lame, nor blind people, but I did invite some of my neighbours who are, relatively speaking, not my relatives nor rich. I have not always been successful in this. For example, I had an outdoor BBQ (grilling some burgers, etc.) and invited a neighbour. She declined to attend, but did send her son over with a homemade lemon pie.

He also didn't seem to feel comfortable actually eating with us but did spend an hour or so standing around in the barn, discussing livestock.

[MaxPC]

In Matthew Jesus reminds us that there are different types of poverty.
Matthew 5:3
“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.“

Jesus spoke of humility in this verse, a humility that eschews being filled with pride; arrogance; and know-it-all attitudes. An emptying of one’s own agenda to control others and instead to serve God’s agenda and each other without expectations of status or rewards.

Everyone has this lesson to learn repeatedly throughout life as we frail and faulty individuals all have to begin again and again and again. Everyone. Including moi.

There are so many ways to address the different kinds of poverty. The poverty of hunger; the poverty of the soul that cannot trust; the poverty of an undeveloped intellect; etc. Jesus understands us as integrated individuals, body, mind and soul. Poverty of one or more of these areas creates a person out of balance who needs help to trust God and to serve God. These individuals are everywhere, including within our social circles.

YMMV

[Bootstrap]

Do not discuss politics in this thread; if you need to, please start a thread in the Politics subforum. Do not discuss the government. Do not discuss government policy. Please narrow your focus to discussion from a Christian and Anabaptist perspective.

Could you please define what you mean by politics here? When you split the thread, you did not include any of my posts, but I don't think any of my posts mentioned government or government policy, they were all focused on what Jesus said, with scripture. Would it be better to simply move the political posts out of the first topic? And perhaps also the ones where people exchange opinions of each other?

I would like a thread that avoids politics and avoids discussing each other. I'm now confused about which thread to participate in.

[Josh]

Do not discuss politics in this thread; if you need to, please start a thread in the Politics subforum. Do not discuss the government. Do not discuss government policy. Please narrow your focus to discussion from a Christian and Anabaptist perspective.

Could you please define what you mean by politics here? When you split the thread, you did not include any of my posts, but I don't think any of my posts mentioned government or government policy, they were all focused on what Jesus said, with scripture. Would it be better to simply move the political posts out of the first topic? And perhaps also the ones where people exchange opinions of each other?

I would like a thread that avoids politics and avoids discussing each other. I'm now confused about which thread to participate in.

Go start your own thread if you want to discuss this (or, I guess, discuss it in the other thread.) I am tired of every discussion I try to have turning into a meta-discussion.

[ken_sylvania]

This is from a list of scriptures Ernie suggested he would like to see conservative Anabaptists discuss more.

Do not discuss politics in this thread; if you need to, please start a thread in the Politics subforum. Do not discuss the government. Do not discuss government policy. Please narrow your focus to discussion from a Christian and Anabaptist perspective.

He said also to the man who had invited him, “When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers[a] or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. 13 But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”

Let's discuss this.

I was not able to find any crippled, lame, nor blind people, but I did invite some of my neighbours who are, relatively speaking, not my relatives nor rich. I have not always been successful in this. For example, I had an outdoor BBQ (grilling some burgers, etc.) and invited a neighbour. She declined to attend, but did send her son over with a homemade lemon pie.

He also didn't seem to feel comfortable actually eating with us but did spend an hour or so standing around in the barn, discussing livestock.

I think maybe Jesus' focus here wasn't so much on specifically inviting poor people to come eat, so much as on doing good without an expectation of being repaid in this life. He taught us to do good, to lend, to give, without an expectation of receiving anything back - with a promise of reward in eternity. I would say that for me it probably involves more of doing things for poor or elderly neighbors such as helping them with yard work or other emergencies, or even just spending time with them listening to their troubles, while knowing I won't receive any kind of earthly compensation.

[Bootstrap]

To me, this does imply that we should get out of our comfort zones, and quite literally invite people who we are not always comfortable eating with. For instance, take a homeless person out to McDonald's. Invite people we are uncomfortable with to some of our church potlucks.

For example, I had an outdoor BBQ (grilling some burgers, etc.) and invited a neighbour. She declined to attend, but did send her son over with a homemade lemon pie.

He also didn't seem to feel comfortable actually eating with us but did spend an hour or so standing around in the barn, discussing livestock.

Sure, I think that is of value. But I think Jesus was asking for more than that in this quote. He had a special heart for the people in our society who have no status, who religious people tend to overlook. And he was calling us to do more than just donate to them, he was calling for us to honor and respect them, to fellowship with them.

[Bootstrap]

I think maybe Jesus' focus here wasn't so much on specifically inviting poor people to come eat, so much as on doing good without an expectation of being repaid in this life. He taught us to do good, to lend, to give, without an expectation of receiving anything back - with a promise of reward in eternity. I would say that for me it probably involves more of doing things for poor or elderly neighbors such as helping them with yard work or other emergencies, or even just spending time with them listening to their troubles, while knowing I won't receive any kind of earthly compensation.

I agree that's all good to do. But to me, the list of people he mentions is really kind of specific.

From the original post:

He said also to the man who had invited him, “When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers[a] or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. 13 But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”

The poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind. Sinners and tax collectors. Samaritans and other foreigners. That's not just people who are not rich, that's people who society often treats like dirt. Refugees and immigrants also belong in this category according to Deuteronomy, and I think according to common sense in modern America. People in nursing homes. Older people, not in nursing homes, who have no family.

If our applications leave that kind of person out, I think we've missed a central part of what Jesus is saying here.

[ken_sylvania]

I think maybe Jesus' focus here wasn't so much on specifically inviting poor people to come eat, so much as on doing good without an expectation of being repaid in this life. He taught us to do good, to lend, to give, without an expectation of receiving anything back - with a promise of reward in eternity. I would say that for me it probably involves more of doing things for poor or elderly neighbors such as helping them with yard work or other emergencies, or even just spending time with them listening to their troubles, while knowing I won't receive any kind of earthly compensation.

I agree that's all good to do. But to me, the list of people he mentions is really kind of specific.

From the original post:

He said also to the man who had invited him, “When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers[a] or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. 13 But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”

The poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind. Sinners and tax collectors. Samaritans and other foreigners. That's not just people who are not rich, that's people who society often treats like dirt. Refugees and immigrants also belong in this category according to Deuteronomy, and I think according to common sense in modern America. People in nursing homes. Older people, not in nursing homes, who have no family.

If our applications leave that kind of person out, I think we've missed a central part of what Jesus is saying here.

Yes, the list of people he mentions is very specific, but aren't you adding to it and in fact describing a different class of people than Jesus describes here?

Jesus said specifically the reason to invite the poor, crippled, lame and blind is because they will not be able to repay your kindness. He says the reason not to invite your friends, relatives and rich neighbors is because they will reciprocate, you will receive an earthly return, and no eternal riches will be gained. There is no mention here of inviting the Samaritans or the publicans or other social outcasts who have the means to repay the favor.

[Ernie]

I think maybe Jesus' focus here wasn't so much on specifically inviting poor people to come eat, so much as on doing good without an expectation of being repaid in this life. He taught us to do good, to lend, to give, without an expectation of receiving anything back - with a promise of reward in eternity. I would say that for me it probably involves more of doing things for poor or elderly neighbors such as helping them with yard work or other emergencies, or even just spending time with them listening to their troubles, while knowing I won't receive any kind of earthly compensation.

And that is exactly how most Augustinians and some Anabaptists read the following instructions... they look for the principle that is being taught... and they stop with the principle...

44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

2“Do not fear, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom. 33Sell what you have and give alms; provide yourselves money bags which do not grow old, a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches nor moth destroys. 34For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Jesus told them, “Moses wrote this commandment for you because of your hardness of heart. 6However, from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”

4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.
7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10 It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own[c] head, because of the angels.

12 So when He had washed their feet, taken His garments, and sat down again, He said to them, “Do you know what I have done to you? 13 You call Me Teacher and Lord, and you say well, for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.

I think that with every instruction in the NT, there is indeed a principle. But there is also a very direct application that would should be trying to follow as well.

[Josh]

I would be happy to invite crippled, lame, and blind people, but I don’t know of any blind people to invite. We just don’t have blindness. So I do have to dig deeper for a principle here.