Alex Jones...

[Josh]

Oh good grief. Is Alex Jones into Holocaust denial too? I guess that would figure.

He isn’t. JohnHurt appears to be.

Note that millions of victims of the Holocaust were gentiles such as Polish.

[JohnHurt]

Oh good grief. Is Alex Jones into Holocaust denial too? I guess that would figure.

He isn’t. JohnHurt appears to be.

Note that millions of victims of the Holocaust were gentiles such as Polish.

The Germans also rounded up the Bruderhof and the 7th Day Adventists and put them into camps for being pacifists.

And I never said that Jones or anyone else denied the Holocaust. Nor did I deny the Holocaust. Read my statements again. I was completely neutral. You supposed what you wanted to believe. I never told you the answer of what I discovered.

The point I made is that you have to go to the original source to find the truth, and ignore your own prejudices, as well as everyone else's.

And the other point that was made - by you - is that a rational discussion of the Holocaust is now impossible.

No one wants to be called a "Holocaust Denier", so no further conversation about the Jews in WWII can take place. By placing a smear word on anyone that tries to investigate a topic, it becomes off limits for investigation or even discussion.

The same with the Kennedy Assassination. If you do not believe that Oswald acted alone, then you are a conspiracy theorist. The CIA coined the word "Conspiracy Theory" from those that questioned the CIA and Warren Report version of who killed John Kennedy and said that Oswald did not act alone, and it has been with us ever since.

Nut, kook, anti-Semite, racist, vaccine denier, a birther (believing Obama's birth certificate was fake), a Tenth-er (believing the 10th Amendment is still relevant), 9-11 truther, and above all "conspiracy theorist".

All of these terms are used to control how we think.

We are being told that Alex Jones is a nut, kook, conspiracy theorist, etc. Yet we never go to the source. We are being controlled by these smear words.

To make these smear words stick in our group consciousness, they have to find a person that talks about them and smear him publicly, so that no one else will ever talk about them again. That is what is happening to Alex Jones.

Here is Alex Jones with clips on how the 2020 Election was stolen in Michigan. Jones is definitely an "Election Denier".

He is using the interviews of the people that actually witnessed the election fraud in 2020, which to me, is an unimpeachable source.



This is why they are smearing "that kooky conspiracy theorist" Alex Jones and trying to shut him down.

[JohnHurt]

1) First of all, 4 million Jews were not murdered and cremated at Auschwitz. Historians estimate that 1 million Jews were murdered at Auschwitz.

You are correct. Prior to 1990, when I did my research, it was listed at 4 million. When the Soviet Union fell, it was lowered to 1 million.

[Szdfan]

1) First of all, 4 million Jews were not murdered and cremated at Auschwitz. Historians estimate that 1 million Jews were murdered at Auschwitz.

You are correct. Prior to 1990, when I did my research, it was listed at 4 million. When the Soviet Union fell, it was lowered to 1 million.

Deaths at Auschwitz fell from four million to 1 million or deaths from the entire Holocaust fell from four million to 1 million?

[Ernie]

Here is Alex Jones with clips on how the 2020 Election was stolen in Michigan. Jones is definitely an "Election Denier".

He is using the interviews of the people that actually witnessed the election fraud in 2020, which to me, is an unimpeachable source.

I don't doubt that the witnesses believed what they reported.
I don't doubt that some fraud took place. There are documented cases of fraud by both parties and people were indicted for this.

What these clips do not tell us is what was learned after the claims of these witnesses were investigated.
Judges who voted for Trump, and wanted him to win the election, could not find verified evidence of mass fraud, that could have changed the election in some way. Believe me, if there was any verifiable evidence, they would have pounced on it and prosecuted it, as they did not want a Democratic president.

I realize that this is a faith statement, just like the belief that there was mass fraud.
At some level we all put our faith in some thing or some person and at this point I still have faith in the judges who voted for Trump.

[Ken]

And I never said that Jones or anyone else denied the Holocaust. Nor did I deny the Holocaust. Read my statements again. I was completely neutral. You supposed what you wanted to believe. I never told you the answer of what I discovered.

The point I made is that you have to go to the original source to find the truth, and ignore your own prejudices, as well as everyone else's.

OK, let's look at what you wrote. This is what you are labeling an "original source"

So I went to the Nashville Public library and found an old set of the World Atlas for each year, starting in 1929 to 1939. At that time, they recorded the total number of different races of people in each country. It had the total number of Jews in Germany for each year, as well as the Jews in Poland, France, and all of the other countries that were to be occupied by Nazi Germany after these Atlases were created. It gave me the numbers I needed to understand who was telling the truth about 6 million Jews dying in the Holocaust. And it was an unimpeachable source, as it was published by a non-biased source before the Holocaust controversy occurred.

Old library editions of world atlases? Like this?



You do realize that an American edition of some world atlas printed in the 1920s is the furthest thing from an original source on the demographics of eastern and central Europe? At very best it might be a tertiary source. The original sources would be the census reports of the actual countries in question and even those would be highly suspect because many minority groups like Jews do not necessarily identify as such on government forms. German Jews, for example, were highly assimilated and the policy of Russia was always one of assimilation and extinguishing minority nationalities through policies of Russification. Who the NAZI SS identified as Jewish during the Holocaust in the 1940s does not necessarily correlate to how people self-reported on census forms 20 years earlier. Many Jews were secular or had converted to Christianity generations earlier and so would not have identified as Jewish on census forms.

So an American published Atlas of the world that might have an index map of European nationalities is actually the furthest thing from an original source. Who knows what their original source was and it was also most likely a secondary source as well. Atlases are not scholarly documents so they might not even have footnotes listing sources.

It gets worse. Next you wrote:

I also studied how 4 million Jews were gassed and cremated at Auschwitz. To find an unimpeachable source, I studied how a gas chamber in the USA works, how it is evacuated and cleaned, and other issues, which is an unimpeachable source. I also studied how long it takes to cremate a body in the USA funeral industry, which is also an unimpeachable source. And cremation doesn't go faster with more bodies, it makes it take longer. I looked at how much fuel and how many crematories would be needed if they ran the crematories 24/7 for the period of 1940 to 1945 to process 4 million deaths. Math is also an unimpeachable source. From this exercise, I was able to understand the correct answer about what really happened.

No, those aren't "unimpeachable sources and neither are you. Those are apples to oranges comparisons. A gas chamber of the sort once used in the US for executions bears no similarity to the gas chambers used by the Nazis during the Holocaust. Other than the name. Instead of researching American gas chambers and the American funeral industry which were intentionally designed to kill and dispose of one person at a time. You could actually research the gas chambers and crematoriums at Auschwitz and other Nazi death camps. For example, here is Auschwitz from the source itself: https://www.auschwitz.org/en/history/au ... -chambers/

The construction of 4 large gas chambers and crematoria began in Birkenau in 1942. They went into operation between March 22 and June 25-26, 1943. The gas chambers at crematoria II and III, like the undressing rooms, were located underground, while those at crematoria IV and V stood at ground level. About 2 thousand people at a time could be put to death in each of them. According to calculations made by the Zentralbauleitung [German SS authorities] on June 28, 1943, the crematoria could burn 4,416 corpses per day—1,440 each in crematoria II and III, and 768 each in crematoria IV and V. This meant that the crematoria could burn over 1.6 million corpses per year. Prisoners assigned to do the burning stated that the daily capacity of the four crematoria in Birkenau was higher—about 8 thousand corpses.

That doesn't sound anything like the crematorium at your local funeral home now does it? Germany actually used six such extermination camps: Chełmno, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka, Majdanek and Auschwitz-Birkenau and the historically accepted figure is that they collectively murdered just over 2.7 million Jews at such camps. A number that is entirely consistent with this information.

And the other point that was made - by you - is that a rational discussion of the Holocaust is now impossible.

No one wants to be called a "Holocaust Denier", so no further conversation about the Jews in WWII can take place. By placing a smear word on anyone that tries to investigate a topic, it becomes off limits for investigation or even discussion.

There is actually an immense amount of research and "rational discussion" happening about the Holocaust every single day. There are thousands of historians and other researchers who have dedicated their lives to investigating and documenting every aspect of WW2 history including the Holocaust. It is probably the most researched and documented period in all of human history. There are constant historical debates about every aspect of the war and they are ongoing. There are over 16,000 books published on the Holocaust at the Library of Congress, most published in the last 30 years. And that number would not include the vast number of historical books published overseas in other languages.

What actual historians don't do is rely on old world atlases found in American libraries or data from garden variety funeral home crematoriums to draw conclusions. Those are not "unimpeachable original sources" They aren't original sources of any kind. And relying on such sources is not "rational discussion"

[temporal1]

using lazyman’s quick google copy+paste to criticize others’ dedicated physical search attempts is amusing.

[Ken]

using lazyman’s quick google copy+paste to criticize others’ dedicated physical search attempts is amusing.

Is it? I'm glad I could amuse you.

What did I get wrong? Anything?

Or are you in the John Hurt camp that studying how a garden variety funeral home crematorium works in the US tells us anything about what happened during the Holocaust? The physical research he describes is the equivalent of saying: "There couldn't have been 300,000 fatalities at the Battle of the Somme or 1.2 million fatalities at Stalingrad because I studied a Winchester Model 70 hunting rifle and they can only fire 5 shots at a time. So the math just doesn't work"

[Josh]

using lazyman’s quick google copy+paste to criticize others’ dedicated physical search attempts is amusing.

This seems to be a regular contribution from some contributors in nearly every thread.

[Ken]

using lazyman’s quick google copy+paste to criticize others’ dedicated physical search attempts is amusing.

This seems to be a regular contribution from some contributors in nearly every thread.

As opposed to those who just make up nonsense out of thin air?

Or in the case of this thread, cite Alex Jones as an authority on anything?