Where can you afford a home on your income?

[Ken]

When I say “single mother”, I mean “single mother by reason of choosing fornication”; this is the generally accepted main meaning of this phrase. It is acceptable to speak in generalities and not to muddy the waters with every edge case you can think of.

That is not, in fact, the generally accepted main meaning of the phrase. That is one narrow subset of the larger group of women who are single mothers.

For example, we can turn to Pew which does surveys on this topic:

Single mothers are made up of two major groups: one consists of mothers with children from a previous marriage, and the other consists of mothers who have never been married. There is also a small group of mothers who are married but whose spouses are not living in the household.

and even if you restrict the discussion to women who have never been married, those who became single mothers through "fornication" as you put it are yet just a subset of that category. Some became single mothers through adoption. Some became single mothers through rape and incest. Some became single mothers through IVF, and some became single mothers through family guardianship situations.

Furthermore, there is no practical way to segregate single mothers based on the circumstances surrounding the birth of the child and have punitive policies for single mothers who got that way through means of which you disapprove, but supportive policies for those who got that way through means of which you approve. There is no scarlet letter that gets imposed on the birth certificates of some children but not others. We dispensed with such nonsense several centuries ago. And attempts to re-introduce that sort of thing would almost certainly be unconstitutional.

[temporal1]

What do scriptures say about GOOD INTENTIONS that make everything worse?

In this case, it’s about various gov subsidies intended to help single mothers, but end up proliferating the problems?
Decades on, the disastrous results are in. Now what?

i appreciate a lot of what THOMAS SOWELL has to say about it. (links elsewhere on MN)
i’m not sure if he’s a Christian, i don’t think his views on it conflict with scriptures.

Did Jesus teach us to try to make life easier for fornicators?

In fact, he said that the wages of sin are death.
Yet we live in a society that thinks a fornicating mother deserves more money, free food, free medical care, and support in general than my wife does.

Josh’s direct, impolite, imprecise language notwithstanding, human reasoning is FAILING and many are harmed.
The results of decades of human reasoning are in. Not a pretty picture.

On MD there were discussions about men with 20+ children, not married to any of several mothers. Not uncommon.
It must no longer be PC to report on these cases, i doubt anything’s actually changed.

The government has failed. Souls are harmed. When experiments fail, just admit it.

Housing?
Well. That’s not the only issue, is it? Many have housing, and much more, paid by government.
Why isn’t everything peaches+cream? It looks great on paper!

[Josh]

Ken, that’s why I agreed to call them “fornicating mothers” (or “fornicating parents” if need be). Do you object to that term?

[Josh]

Did Jesus teach us to try to make life easier for fornicators?

In fact, he said that the wages of sin are death. Yet we live in a society that thinks a fornicating mother deserves more money, free food, free medical care, and support in general than my wife does.

I think I suggest you show this thread to one of your ministers and ask him if your position is Christlike.
Let us know what he says.

Generally speaking, we don’t support fornication. Would you expect otherwise?

[ken_sylvania]

Did Jesus teach us to try to make life easier for fornicators?

By example - yes. He refused to condemn the woman who was caught in the act of adultery, and essentially told the Pharisees they should not be punishing her unless they were sinless themselves.

[Ken]

Ken, that’s why I agreed to call them “fornicating mothers” (or “fornicating parents” if need be). Do you object to that term?

Yes, we know you disapprove of such women. And you are free to call them anything you want.

But that isn't a useful definition if we are discussing things like making it harder for single mothers to live in a particular neighborhood. Or making it harder for them in general. Which are actual things that you have proposed in this thread.

That is because most policies are centered on the children not the mothers. Like the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP). Or the Head Start program. Or food assistance programs like SNAP. Or housing assistance. We don't sort children into groups based on the circumstances of their conception. And say to one child "you get to eat and have a roof over your head but this other child does not because we disapprove of how she was conceived." Not only is such a notion immoral. It would most certainly be unconstitutional.

[temporal1]

Did Jesus teach us to try to make life easier for fornicators?

By example - yes. He refused to condemn the woman who was caught in the act of adultery, and essentially told the Pharisees they should not be punishing her unless they were sinless themselves.

agreed.
Jesus didn’t go on to suggest that Rome should reward fornication, thereby encourage it, even if inadvertantly.

Many are suffering due to good intentions gone wrong.

[Josh]

Did Jesus teach us to try to make life easier for fornicators?

By example - yes. He refused to condemn the woman who was caught in the act of adultery, and essentially told the Pharisees they should not be punishing her unless they were sinless themselves.

I don’t think Jesus taught us adultery is okay and that we should take efforts to make life easier to adulterers at all. The New Testament doesn’t reflect the idea that only “sinless” people can judge others for being in sin or not, and the early church certainly didn’t function that way either.

If you believe that, you are welcome to your beliefs, but it means we have fundamentally different religions and faiths. I believe Jesus came to set sinners free from sin, not to excuse sin as being no big deal and something that should be tolerated.

[Josh]

Ken, that’s why I agreed to call them “fornicating mothers” (or “fornicating parents” if need be). Do you object to that term?

Yes, we know you disapprove of such women. And you are free to call them anything you want.

But that isn't a useful definition if we are discussing things like making it harder for single mothers to live in a particular neighborhood. Or making it harder for them in general. Which are actual things that you have proposed in this thread.

That is because most policies are centered on the children not the mothers. Like the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP). Or the Head Start program. Or food assistance programs like SNAP. Or housing assistance. We don't sort children into groups based on the circumstances of their conception.

Actually, “we” most certainly do. Ken, have you personally applied for or seen an application for SNAP or WIC or Medicaid recently?

You are asked if you are married or not, and if so, to include a husband’s income amount. If unmarried, the father’s income isn’t included. The amount of SNAP awarded is higher for fornicating single mothers than it is for married, chaste mothers (unless their husband doesn’t work).

And say to one child "you get to eat and have a roof over your head but this other child does not because we disapprove of how she was conceived." Not only is such a notion immoral. It would most certainly be unconstitutional.

That is exactly what the current system does. If my wife and I were unmarried, my children would get a bigger food stamp allowance each month.

[Soloist]

Generally speaking, we don’t support fornication. Would you expect otherwise?

Josh if you really don’t understand why you should show it to one of them then you should definitely show it to one of them. You obviously are completely missing the point that both Ken S and myself are trying to make to you.

Do you honestly think that either him or I support fornication? Perhaps you should try to figure out why we actually object to what you did.