Catholic to Anabaptist

[temporal1]

P.56: Registration thread

Re: Welcome to MennoNet
Post by Stph » Mon May 27, 2024 11:39 pm

I am interested in finding out more about the beliefs and, especially, the requirements and expectations. I would probably simply attend a local Mennonite church to form my own opinion first hand, except I can't seem to find one nearby.

What little I know I got from a youtube video in which a Mennonite woman, probably in her early twenties, answered questions about the faith. I was surprised at the reasonableness and rationality of her answers (adult baptism, no participation in war - ever, other than having her hair partially covered she seemed to dress and behave normally, etc.) I guess I was expecting something more akin to Amish, although I don't know exactly what the Amish believe, either.
About me: I was raised Catholic but stopped believing and attending church probably around age 15. I went through an atheist period but set that aside after a series of near death experiences. Thereafter I just said I was "spiritual"; but never claimed to be Christian.

In truth, I probably won't fit well in any Christian church, including Mennonite. And yet I generally follow Christian principles (10 commandments), because that is my nature. However, recent years have made clear that devils are quite real, and I ought to be doing more to counterbalance them. I am nearly 70. I am learning Spanish and in process of moving to S. America (where I understand there are Mennonite congregations and some Spanish speakers ;-/.

Maybe someone can recommend some good sources for learning more about what a Mennonite community would expect of me and what it would be like? I read that Mennonites believe in praying to the Holy Spirit? That seems sensible to me - though certainly not anything the Catholic Church would ever condone! Can one be a Mennonite without necessarily going to church every Sunday? What are the unpardonable sins? As I said, I probably wouldn't fit in, anyway. But I'd still like to know more.

Welcome to MN, Stph!

Interesting introduction, i hope it’s ok i added it to this topic? i thought you might find some helpful info here.
i’m not Catholic or Anabaptist, like you, i’m appreciative of opportunities to learn, interested in reading.

i underlined above, i have a question for you about Catholics not praying to the Holy Spirit?!
i’m surprised to read this, hoping you’ll explain. i found this:

“This is the prayer to the Holy Spirit that Pope Francis wants every Catholic to know”
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... ic-to-know

i hope you’ll receive lots of discussion on forum about your thoughts and questions.
Maybe beginning with possible fellowships near you. There are members here who try to help folks locate groups, near+far!

[Stph]

Thanks for the comment, Temporal1.

I just found your comment here. I was browsing through this thread, hoping to find a cogent comparison to Catholicism, so I would at least have points of comparison. So far I have watched two videos ((Stephen Russell, Samantha Trenkamp) and and haven't found that concise comparison. Maybe it is here, but -- being a little ADHD and impatient -- I haven't found it. The first video really only stressed non violence against other people. The second only really stressed (at least for my ears) daily living within the faith and strong community connection. Those are both attractive to me, but I had already heard about them from wikipedia and the Q&A I cited in my opening post.

The Pope's prayer seems really one dimensional to me: only a few more words than the token mention of the Holy Ghost all Catholics used to cite every Sunday ("In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost..."). My memory of Catholicism is that "God the Father" and "The Holy Ghost" are just bookends -- and not very attractive ones, not approachable, and not really to be taken seriously. And, of course, the Pope himself CLEARLY isn't following the example of Jesus. To start with, he lives a life of opulence and -- going from memory -- every Pope I have ever seen a picture of, was chunky, at least, if not obese.

Are you aware of any resource which, relatively concisely, just lays out all the main beliefs and practices? Obviously, just reading some concise distillation, won't give me a full picture, but it would be a good starting point for me, I think.

To give you a little more background on me: For the last twenty years I have mostly been investigating Buddhism, with a lot of emphasis on meditation. Buddha and Jesus, it seems to me, had closely similar lifestyles and, perhaps surprisingly, very similar precepts (e.g., non violence, compassion for others, a simple lifestyle without excess, detachment from worldly trappings, work on yourself to lead by example, etc.)

I believe I mentioned I was raised Catholic, and my parents took me to church every Sunday until approximately age 15 (mostly during the period when the traditional Latin mass was standard). From about age 16-35 I was a pretty strict atheist, and picked up a lot of science and rational degrees. Beginning around age 32 I went through a period, of approximately three years, when had frequent seizures and stopped breathing many times; I think I went through all of Kubler-Ross's Five Stages of Dying. Toward the end I was quite emotionally numb and, as I recall, could barely talk without stuttering (the seizures substantially affected my ability to speak).

I mostly stopped dreaming. However, I do remember one vivid dream. A figure in a robe, looking rather like Jesus, came to me and he said, "If you believe in me I will let you live." I said "No." As I recall, he smiled and said, "That's okay. You will live anyway." Shortly after that the proximal cause of the seizures was found and, although I have had a lot of close calls since then, I haven't had a seizure for almost 35 years.

A few questions:

(1) I'd prefer to pray to either God the Father or, perhaps, to the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit seems more inviting). And not, really, to Jesus, whom I take to be overworked, and turned into a propaganda figure by the various Churches and Governments, though the centuries. Is that okay? As I said, one of the things I read about Mennonites was that they put more emphasis on praying to the Holy Spirit. FWIW, I pray to "Life" or "The Universe" pretty regularly since the period when the seizures ended and I opened my heart to believing again.

(2) How do Mennonites reconcile non violence against humans with violence against animals? With the occasional exception of eating fish (when I try to be mindful of what I am eating), I have been vegetarian -- mostly vegan -- for over 30 years. I won't eat what I won't kill. And, yes, I HAVE looked a sheep in the eyes, made the sign of the cross, asked its forgiveness, and slit its throat with a knife; It was a mercy killing. (And, for what it is worth, I believe I would kill a human if similarly necessary...I would just try to be mindful of what I was doing, and why.)

[MaxPC]

The Pope's prayer seems really one dimensional to me: only a few more words than the token mention of the Holy Ghost all Catholics used to cite every Sunday ("In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost..."). My memory of Catholicism is that "God the Father" and "The Holy Ghost" are just bookends -- and not very attractive ones, not approachable, and not really to be taken seriously. And, of course, the Pope himself CLEARLY isn't following the example of Jesus. To start with, he lives a life of opulence and -- going from memory -- every Pope I have ever seen a picture of, was chunky, at least, if not obese.

We will pray for your seizure health troubles. I am surprised that you have not heard of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

Regarding popes and obesity, I recall that Pope Pius XII (1939-1958) was a thinner man. Likewise Pope Paul VI (1963-1978) and Pope John Paul II (1978-2005) who when he was elected was quite athletic. His health turned for the worse after the assassination attempt on his life. Popes are past mid-life when elected and honestly, we all gain a ponch when we do more sitting than standing and engage less movement. In my 90s I am not a fit athlete either. I fail to see the connection between thinness and holiness though I am thinner myself. Does that make me holier? Frankly I do not think so. I have met some outstanding and yes, holy individuals in my life who weighed 2 stone above the extreme insurance chart mandates. They also lived into their 80s and 90s. I have discovered that it is genetics that bears the greatest influence in body types and life spans. God made us all different in size, attitude and personality.

[Stph]

I wasn't trying to attack the Catholic church, per se. I'm saying that IMO, raised very much as a Catholic, I don't regard it as particularly Christian. I regard it as more of a political institution (an instrument for helping governments/elites dominate non-elites).

One of my aunts was an Evangelical Catholic, and she seemed to take Christ as a personal example. So, certainly, some Catholics are actually very Christ centered. Relatively few of the Popes seem to have taken Christ's example very personally, though -- and what does that say about the Cardinals who selected them?

At a more fundamental level, and turning to the positive, I'm saying that what I have READ about Mennonites, seems more in line with my own beliefs and ethical compass: The moral precepts ("Thou shall not kill"); Choose Christianity consciously; Live every day, and try to make every decision, emulating Christ's example.

In the book The 100 --A ranking of the most influential persons in history, Jesus is ranked #3. "If it was primarily as an ethical leader that Jesus left his mark, it is surely pertinent to ask to what extent his ethical ideas have influenced the world....If they were widely followed I would have no hesitation in placing Jesus first in this book."

That's pretty sad, but honest, if you think about it.

[Josh]

I wasn't trying to attack the Catholic church, per se. I'm saying that IMO, raised very much as a Catholic, I don't regard it as particularly Christian. I regard it as more of a political institution (an instrument for helping governments/elites dominate non-elites).

One of my aunts was an Evangelical Catholic, and she seemed to take Christ as a personal example. So, certainly, some Catholics are actually very Christ centered. Relatively few of the Popes seem to have taken Christ's example very personally, though -- and what does that say about the Cardinals who selected them?

At a more fundamental level, and turning to the positive, I'm saying that what I have READ about Mennonites, seems more in line with my own beliefs and ethical compass: The moral precepts ("Thou shall not kill"); Choose Christianity consciously; Live every day, and try to make every decision, emulating Christ's example.

In the book The 100 --A ranking of the most influential persons in history, Jesus is ranked #3. "If it was primarily as an ethical leader that Jesus left his mark, it is surely pertinent to ask to what extent his ethical ideas have influenced the world....If they were widely followed I would have no hesitation in placing Jesus first in this book."

That's pretty sad, but honest, if you think about it.

Stph,

Welcome to MennoNet.

MaxPC is a resident frequent poster on MennoNet who claims to be Catholic, and often presents very "alternative" points of view about Catholicism that don't line up with the rest of our experiences and perspectives on Catholicism. I would advise you to enjoy his unique perspective, but don't get too caught up arguing with him when what he claims conflicts with your own lived experience.

At a more fundamental level, and turning to the positive, I'm saying that what I have READ about Mennonites, seems more in line with my own beliefs and ethical compass: The moral precepts ("Thou shall not kill"); Choose Christianity consciously; Live every day, and try to make every decision, emulating Christ's example.

This is a big part of why I have remained Mennonite as well, as in other Christian faith traditions, there often seem to be excuses why it is OK to kill another human being - perhaps in self defence, as a cop or a soldier, capital punishment, and so forth. I don't feel as a follower of Jesus I should ever take action to kill someone, even if there is some way to justify it.

[Josh]

To give you a little more background on me: For the last twenty years I have mostly been investigating Buddhism, with a lot of emphasis on meditation. Buddha and Jesus, it seems to me, had closely similar lifestyles and, perhaps surprisingly, very similar precepts (e.g., non violence, compassion for others, a simple lifestyle without excess, detachment from worldly trappings, work on yourself to lead by example, etc.)

A key difference is that Jesus claimed to be (and I believe he is) fully God, and Buddha never made such a claim. Buddha neither rose from the dead nor promised us eternal life and the resurrection. Jesus did.

(1) I'd prefer to pray to either God the Father or, perhaps, to the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit seems more inviting). And not, really, to Jesus, whom I take to be overworked, and turned into a propaganda figure by the various Churches and Governments, though the centuries. Is that okay? As I said, one of the things I read about Mennonites was that they put more emphasis on praying to the Holy Spirit. FWIW, I pray to "Life" or "The Universe" pretty regularly since the period when the seizures ended and I opened my heart to believing again.

I don't really see a problem with praying to God, Jesus, the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, although most people don't think in terms of praying to the Holy Spirit. In my view of the Trinity, they are all equally God.

I am not aware of any emphasis of Mennonites praying to the "Holy Spirit". We usually pray to either Jesus or "Father".

(2) How do Mennonites reconcile non violence against humans with violence against animals? With the occasional exception of eating fish (when I try to be mindful of what I am eating), I have been vegetarian -- mostly vegan -- for over 30 years. I won't eat what I won't kill. And, yes, I HAVE looked a sheep in the eyes, made the sign of the cross, asked its forgiveness, and slit its throat with a knife; It was a mercy killing. (And, for what it is worth, I believe I would kill a human if similarly necessary...I would just try to be mindful of what I was doing, and why.)

Mennonites view animals as, well, animals. It's impossible to go through life without killing lots of animals, starting with microbial life, going up to insects like ants or mites you step on, or the ticks that sometimes jump onto us and bite us that we have to remove.

Likewise, God specifically told Noah when they landed the Ark that now it was okay for humans to eat meat. In the fully restored kingdom of Jesus, there won't be any death anywhere anymore, but how that will happen is a mystery. For now, we are in a world where animals die, and there is nothing immoral or wrong about killing animals including using them for meat. Nonetheless, a "righteous man has regard for the life of his beast", and I wouldn't needlessly kill an animal.

In the animal kingdom, other animals frequently kill each other, as I must be mindful of when I see hawks or eagles overhead eyeing my chicken flock. The mother hens keep their newly hatched chicks away from the barn cats who might see an opportunity for a small, furry snack. That is simply how the world is.

There are major ecological problems with the idea that humans should only eat crops or plants - much land is suitable for pasture but can't really grow edible crops very well. Humans have always depended on livestock animals for milk and meat, and animals in turn have depended on us to husband them. Pasture animals play a key role in fertilising the soil and maintaining the right balance of various minerals.

But to answer your question: Mennonites follow when we see taught in the Bible, and there is no injunction in the Bible against killing animals for meat or other purposes. God told Peter, "Arise, kill and eat;" Jesus ate bread and fish from the fire upon his resurrection.

[MaxPC]

I wasn't trying to attack the Catholic church, per se. I'm saying that IMO, raised very much as a Catholic, I don't regard it as particularly Christian. I regard it as more of a political institution (an instrument for helping governments/elites dominate non-elites).

One of my aunts was an Evangelical Catholic, and she seemed to take Christ as a personal example. So, certainly, some Catholics are actually very Christ centered. Relatively few of the Popes seem to have taken Christ's example very personally, though -- and what does that say about the Cardinals who selected them?

At a more fundamental level, and turning to the positive, I'm saying that what I have READ about Mennonites, seems more in line with my own beliefs and ethical compass: The moral precepts ("Thou shall not kill"); Choose Christianity consciously; Live every day, and try to make every decision, emulating Christ's example.

In the book The 100 --A ranking of the most influential persons in history, Jesus is ranked #3. "If it was primarily as an ethical leader that Jesus left his mark, it is surely pertinent to ask to what extent his ethical ideas have influenced the world....If they were widely followed I would have no hesitation in placing Jesus first in this book."

That's pretty sad, but honest, if you think about it.

I think you will find that all Christian denominations have what on the surface appears to be the excellent, the mediocre, and the troubled disciples in their midsts.

Can we truly know someone’s heart and journey? I think not: that is Christ’s purview. Are snap judgements about others leading us into problems in our relationships with Jesus and others? In my experiences, I have found this to be true. Further all are guilty of this behavior at some point in their lives

23 since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 3

In my experiences, when one finds oneself at a crossroads in one’s faith journey, the most helpful courses of action is to increase one’s prayer time with Jesus to become more familiar with Him; also to prayerfully read the New Testament every day. It seems to me you are yearning for a closer relationship with Christ, that He is calling you closer to Him. Daily quiet prayer and Bible reading is a proven means to that call.

By improving your relationship with Jesus, you will improve your understanding of yourself and the vocation to which He is calling you, be it take another path; or remain where you. God’s timing is not human timing.

[temporal1]

New member: Welcome to MN, MarkKraus!
You might find something interesting in this topic, you’re welcome to add to it, and/or any topic.
You may begin a new topic of your interest. (i’m just another forum member, looking forward to reading more from you.)

Re: Welcome to MennoNet
.. MarkKraus » Sat Jul 06, 2024 8:52 pm

Hello, I am Mark Kraus and my wife Charity and our eleven children.

I was raised Roman Catholic but was born again at age 18.
I left the Catholic church and became an Anabaptist after meeting someone from the Cookeville Community in Tennessee in 1996.

Long Story short we moved to Hickory NC with the intention of starting a conservative Anabaptist church.
Feel free to email or contact me.
Our website is Kingdomchristians.org
Our vision statement is there and includes raising up a church primarily from the community.
May The Lord Jesus receive the honor and glory!

(i hope you don’t mind, i have some vision anomalies, i sometimes add line spacing to help me read.)

This topic is meant to be an informal look at folks who chose the journey, Catholic to Anabaptist.
It began long ago, didn’t it?

[temporal1]

Anabaptist Perspectives / Reagan Schrock / I Was Roman Catholic. Then I Became Amish. — Elizabeth Vendley / -40min

Description:
“Elizabeth Vendley was born into the Roman Catholic Church and embarked on a long journey of trying to find a church and community to integrate into.

Ultimately, this led her and her family to join the Amish, and then through life circumstances a Mennonite church.

Elizabeth shares her story, what she learned along the way, and lessons for those that are searching for a church to be a part of.”

(The Samantha Trenkamp video mentioned is on P.2)

i believe the video host is Reagan Schrock. If not, i apologize, and please correct!

[mike]

Anabaptist Perspectives / Reagan Schrock / I Was Roman Catholic. Then I Became Amish. — Elizabeth Vendley / -40min

Description:
“Elizabeth Vendley was born into the Roman Catholic Church and embarked on a long journey of trying to find a church and community to integrate into.

Ultimately, this led her and her family to join the Amish, and then through life circumstances a Mennonite church.

Elizabeth shares her story, what she learned along the way, and lessons for those that are searching for a church to be a part of.”

(The Samantha Trenkamp video mentioned is on P.2)

i believe the video host is Reagan Schrock. If not, i apologize, and please correct!

I listened to this. It’s good.