Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Josh]

Russia has not "won", although I feel it would be accurate to say they have a very high chance of winning. But right now, the endless trench warfare just goes on and on and probably will keep going on for years.

[Soloist]

Please back up what you say with some sort of evidence.

I was pointing out your data was open source and Ukraine has every reason to lie as well as Russia.
This isn’t reliable data to prove anything.

I gave you a link to prove that the war in Ukraine is lost. It is a real time map, that you can adjust the date parameters and see the advance of the Russian troops into Ukraine.

Most of the Russian advance has been well documented. The war is not lost though. You don’t understand war. When Napoleon and Hitler invaded Russia they took over massive amounts before being defeated. Iraq, Vietnam and Afghanistan were invaded by superior armies and eventually they left.
You are saying it’s lost… accurately it’s not going well for Ukraine but it is not lost.

Look at the time progression of the war around Bakmut, Popasna, and at Avdiivka, where the Russians were doing a slow encirclement.

Yeah and for all of Russia’s superior size and advantages, that took too long.

So yes, if you read between the pro-west propaganda, 4 M1 Abrams tanks have recently been captured by Russia, plus other equipment.

Did you even read what I said?

The Western Mainstream Media is lying to you, about this war, and just about everything else. We have to find media sources outside the USA to understand the true situation. The real time map is not lying, it is reporting incidents from various sources - mostly from the Ukrainian side.

How do you know it’s from Ukrainian sources?

The war in Ukraine is lost. Russia has won. The foreign mercenaries are now leaving Ukraine because it is over. That is why Blinken wants Ukraine in NATO, to bring all of Western Europe into a war with Russia.

Yet, Kiev still stands. This is not a “won” war and your eyes are full of propaganda if you actually believe it’s over.

Almost all of the professional Ukrainian soldiers have been killed. Ukraine is now drafting school teachers and shop keepers to hold rifles and sit in trenches awaiting to be killed by Russian shell fire. 30,000 Ukrainian troops were killed in March alone. That is why the Russians are advancing with little opposition, there are not a lot of Ukrainian troops - who know how to fight - left to defend the lines

So… why are they not in Kiev? Hmm? Do you honestly believe this?

This is the same way Russia defeated Germany on the battlefield. The Russian howitzer is called by the Russians "The God of War". They fire it from a distance and blow up the front lines. Russia has factories that can produce unlimited amounts of shells.

We have estimated how many shells they can produce. I don’t dispute that they can produce a lot, but that is just fanboy talk. I could write up similarly about some of the advantages Ukraine has.

The Russians also have superiority over the USA in hypersonic missile technology, drones and other weapons. The United States has greater technology in some areas, but less output. I understand some of the US tanks operate off high speed turbines, which creates a lot of heat and is easily seen by its heat signature.

Hypersonic missiles are not being used in Ukraine. Drones Ukraine are using, are superior to Russian due to sources.
The turbine isn’t creating the heat. It’s the fuel burning that is driving the turbine. Our tanks are more efficient and more powerful then the comparable Russian tanks. Modern tanks haven’t been used by either side.

This war in Ukraine would have never happened if the USA and CIA did not overthrow the democratically elected president of Ukraine in 2014.

I can’t respond with any knowledge on that.

The Democratic Party does not want to lose the war in Ukraine, because Ukraine is where they launder their money, through Burisma and other companies. That is why Schumer prevented the amendment by Rand Paul to make all funds sent to Ukraine under the Auditor General.

I don’t read the news, but I know what you are reading.

This war in Ukraine is the path to WWIII, just like the invasion of Poland in 1939. That is where we are.

This is a possibility. People have forgotten the horrors of war.

The US population is against fighting in this war. They support Ukraine because of the US News Media, but they don't want to send their sons to die in Ukraine. Russia is the opposite.

Most people don’t want to die in a war.

Since the Terror Attack on Moscow, there has been a surge of Russian men volunteering to serve in the Russian army. They know that the USA CIA and Ukraine were behind the Moscow terrorists. The Moscow Terrorist attack was a very stupid idea, as it help solidify the Russian people behind Putin.

Again, there is no factual data to support this at this time.

The people that run our country are incompetent. And it is not Biden and Blinken, they are only the sock puppets.

Have a great day.

John

The sock puppets are pretty skilled apparently.

[Ken]

Russia has not "won", although I feel it would be accurate to say they have a very high chance of winning. But right now, the endless trench warfare just goes on and on and probably will keep going on for years.

What do you define as "winning"

[RZehr]

Russia has not "won", although I feel it would be accurate to say they have a very high chance of winning. But right now, the endless trench warfare just goes on and on and probably will keep going on for years.

What do you define as "winning"

I agree with Josh. Winning? Gaining ground. And Ukraine saying that if they don’t get help they will lose. While Russia has superior numbers in weapons and soldiers. Russia is committed, while we are told the Ukraine needs the West to be more committed or they will lose. China. Sanctions seem to not be effective, Russias economy seems to be doing fine.

I’m not saying like John Hurt that the war is over and the Russia has won. But if this was a baseball game, Russia would be in the lead. We just don’t know if we are watching the first inning, or the ninth inning. If the war stopped today, Russia would have more land than they started with.
At one time Germany was winning WW2, but the ended up losing.

[Ken]

Russia has not "won", although I feel it would be accurate to say they have a very high chance of winning. But right now, the endless trench warfare just goes on and on and probably will keep going on for years.

What do you define as "winning"

I agree with Josh. Winning? Gaining ground. And Ukraine saying that if they don’t get help they will lose. While Russia has superior numbers in weapons and soldiers. Russia is committed, while we are told the Ukraine needs the West to be more committed or they will lose. China. Sanctions seem to not be effective, Russias economy seems to be doing fine.

I’m not saying like John Hurt that the war is over and the Russia has won. But if this was a baseball game, Russia would be in the lead. We just don’t know if we are watching the first inning, or the ninth inning. If the war stopped today, Russia would have more land than they started with.
At one time Germany was winning WW2, but the ended up losing.

I'm not so sure. Russia's stated objectives at the start of the war were to block the expansion of NATO and erase Ukraine and bring it under the Russian umbrella. The whole country. They are not remotely close to doing that. They have lost ground since the first month of the war and are making tiny incremental gains at tremendous cost over the past year. Gains so small that you can't actually see them on a full size map of Ukraine. And the invasion has had the side effect of creating an enormous groundswell of Ukrainian nationalism that didn't exist prior to 2022. If this war is accomplishing anything, it is creating a sense of independent nationhood and nationalism in Ukraine that didn't exist prior to 2022.

Another stated objective was to prevent the expansion of NATO. Oops, Since the war started, NATO has expanded into Sweden and Finland which is actually on Russia's northern border. And all the eastern NATO countries like Poland and the Baltic states have gone on enormous military expansions since 2024. Poland will shortly have the largest military in NATO outside the US and Turkey and is spending like crazy. Before the Ukraine war it was more like 10th. So not only has NATO expanded in terms of territory, it is growing more robust and united in the fact of the Russian threat.

As for the Russian economy? It is probably impossible to believe any numbers coming out of Russia at this point. But they have turned themselves into a corrupt petro and military state. If that were the path to economic success then Nigeria and Venezuela would be economic superpowers. At best guess, the Russian economy looks to be somewhere between Mexico and Canada in size. Not particularly impressive. Other than oil, diamonds, and grain, what does anyone buy out of Russia these days? Where are the Russian iPhones? and cars? Where are the Russian pharma companies? Or international banks?

It looks to me like since the fall of the USSR, Russia has more or less turned itself into a Slavic version of Mexico but with a bigger army and nuclear weapons. I wouldn't call that winning. Just the small Nordic and Baltic countries combined have a larger GDP than all of Russia. And that is without even looking at the rest of NATO.

What is Russia's end game? I don't think they have one. I think they are stuck like we were in Afghanistan and Vietnam. With no real exit strategy or route to victory at this point. Except that this is a bigger and more expensive war than either of those, and Russia is a vastly smaller economy than the US.

I expect it will eventually settle into a frozen conflict like Korea. That could take many many decades to finally resolve. And that isn't necessarily to Russia's advantage. Unwinding sanctions and rejoining the western global economy is going to be very hard to do without major concessions on the part of Russia. And I don't think Russia can depend on building some alternative BRIC economic alliance to counter the west. China and India will look to their own self-interests which are not the same as Russia. Western markets are far more important to both China and India than anything Russia can give them. China would rather sell EVs, phones, and build bullet trains in Europe and North America than be locked into an economic alliance with Russia. When this war is finally over, there are going to be trillions spent rebuilding Ukraine. And Chinese firms are going to want a big piece of that as well. All that money will be coming through western banks and western governments.

[Josh]

Russia has not "won", although I feel it would be accurate to say they have a very high chance of winning. But right now, the endless trench warfare just goes on and on and probably will keep going on for years.

What do you define as "winning"

If current trends continue, they will control a great deal of territory and there won’t be very many Ukrainian men left. Sort of like what happened to the White Russians. They lost.

[Ken]

Russia has not "won", although I feel it would be accurate to say they have a very high chance of winning. But right now, the endless trench warfare just goes on and on and probably will keep going on for years.

What do you define as "winning"

If current trends continue, they will control a great deal of territory and there won’t be very many Ukrainian men left. Sort of like what happened to the White Russians. They lost.

How much territory has Russia gained in the past 2 years? I presume these are the current trends you are talking about? Today is April 6, 2024. How much territory has Russia gained since April 6, 2022? How about since April 6, 2023? Just the past year?

The answer is not "a lot".

[JohnHurt]

After the battle of Stalingrad, it was over for the Germans in WWII. That is when the Germans lost the war.

A war is lost when replacements cannot keep up with losses. It is just a matter of time.

Without joining NATO, or accepting a peace settlement without Boris Johnson, Ukraine has lost the war.

Ukraine lacks the ability to replenish its manpower reserves, regardless of the weapons given by the West.

So it is not about territory.

Taking territory is what Hitler thought, that every bit of ground was valuable, and he would not retreat when a retreat was in his favor.

Russia learned a lot in WWII. Territory only matters when you can take territory to eliminate the enemy's means of production. That is why Stalin moved his factories to the East in WWII.

Russia does not need more Ukrainian territory when it can destroy the Ukrainian power supply and infrastructure from 200 miles away.

Russia has gone to a full wartime economy. The US and Europe are headed into a Great Depression.

Let's talk about this a year from now. The real time map shows the Ukrainian front around Donbass is collapsing. Let's see what happens between now and the US election.

[JohnHurt]

Please back up what you say with some sort of evidence.

I was pointing out your data was open source and Ukraine has every reason to lie as well as Russia.
This isn’t reliable data to prove anything.

I gave you a link to prove that the war in Ukraine is lost. It is a real time map, that you can adjust the date parameters and see the advance of the Russian troops into Ukraine.

Most of the Russian advance has been well documented. The war is not lost though. You don’t understand war. When Napoleon and Hitler invaded Russia they took over massive amounts before being defeated. Iraq, Vietnam and Afghanistan were invaded by superior armies and eventually they left.
You are saying it’s lost… accurately it’s not going well for Ukraine but it is not lost.

Look at the time progression of the war around Bakmut, Popasna, and at Avdiivka, where the Russians were doing a slow encirclement.

Yeah and for all of Russia’s superior size and advantages, that took too long.

So yes, if you read between the pro-west propaganda, 4 M1 Abrams tanks have recently been captured by Russia, plus other equipment.

Did you even read what I said?

The Western Mainstream Media is lying to you, about this war, and just about everything else. We have to find media sources outside the USA to understand the true situation. The real time map is not lying, it is reporting incidents from various sources - mostly from the Ukrainian side.

How do you know it’s from Ukrainian sources?

The war in Ukraine is lost. Russia has won. The foreign mercenaries are now leaving Ukraine because it is over. That is why Blinken wants Ukraine in NATO, to bring all of Western Europe into a war with Russia.

Yet, Kiev still stands. This is not a “won” war and your eyes are full of propaganda if you actually believe it’s over.

Almost all of the professional Ukrainian soldiers have been killed. Ukraine is now drafting school teachers and shop keepers to hold rifles and sit in trenches awaiting to be killed by Russian shell fire. 30,000 Ukrainian troops were killed in March alone. That is why the Russians are advancing with little opposition, there are not a lot of Ukrainian troops - who know how to fight - left to defend the lines

So… why are they not in Kiev? Hmm? Do you honestly believe this?

This is the same way Russia defeated Germany on the battlefield. The Russian howitzer is called by the Russians "The God of War". They fire it from a distance and blow up the front lines. Russia has factories that can produce unlimited amounts of shells.

We have estimated how many shells they can produce. I don’t dispute that they can produce a lot, but that is just fanboy talk. I could write up similarly about some of the advantages Ukraine has.

The Russians also have superiority over the USA in hypersonic missile technology, drones and other weapons. The United States has greater technology in some areas, but less output. I understand some of the US tanks operate off high speed turbines, which creates a lot of heat and is easily seen by its heat signature.

Hypersonic missiles are not being used in Ukraine. Drones Ukraine are using, are superior to Russian due to sources.
The turbine isn’t creating the heat. It’s the fuel burning that is driving the turbine. Our tanks are more efficient and more powerful then the comparable Russian tanks. Modern tanks haven’t been used by either side.

This war in Ukraine would have never happened if the USA and CIA did not overthrow the democratically elected president of Ukraine in 2014.

I can’t respond with any knowledge on that.

The Democratic Party does not want to lose the war in Ukraine, because Ukraine is where they launder their money, through Burisma and other companies. That is why Schumer prevented the amendment by Rand Paul to make all funds sent to Ukraine under the Auditor General.

I don’t read the news, but I know what you are reading.

This war in Ukraine is the path to WWIII, just like the invasion of Poland in 1939. That is where we are.

This is a possibility. People have forgotten the horrors of war.

The US population is against fighting in this war. They support Ukraine because of the US News Media, but they don't want to send their sons to die in Ukraine. Russia is the opposite.

Most people don’t want to die in a war.

Since the Terror Attack on Moscow, there has been a surge of Russian men volunteering to serve in the Russian army. They know that the USA CIA and Ukraine were behind the Moscow terrorists. The Moscow Terrorist attack was a very stupid idea, as it help solidify the Russian people behind Putin.

Again, there is no factual data to support this at this time.

The people that run our country are incompetent. And it is not Biden and Blinken, they are only the sock puppets.

Have a great day.

John

The sock puppets are pretty skilled apparently.

So no sources you can quote, just your own opinions.

[Soloist]

So no sources you can quote, just your own opinions.

You aren’t interested in discussing. You are sourcing “facts” from crowd sourced map and Russian propaganda. No one is disputing Ukraine is having some bad trouble.

It’s painfully obvious that Russia failed their initial attack which if you look at the early propaganda from the sources you read wasn’t what was being peddled.
Look at the predictions of your sources last year and evaluate if they were correct.