Gaza's Irrational Hatred

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
Ken
Posts: 16996
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Gaza's Irrational Hatred

Post by Ken »

Judas Maccabeus wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 8:47 pm America is going to build a floating port right next to the coast. What could possibly go wrong there?
I'm not sure what you are referring to in terms of things that might go wrong.

The US is the world leader in terms of amphibious operations and there isn't even a remotely close second. It has been that way since the Normandy Invasion. Every major war the US has ever fought since the Civil War has been an amphibious operation of some sort. Compared to say Russia which has never in its history conducted one. And every possible future US war being planned for is also likely to be amphibious. All those trillions of dollars going to the Pentagon didn't JUST go to gold plated toilet seats. If there is one thing that the US military and Corps of Engineers know how to do it is build a temporary floating harbor. In fact, the Navy probably has all kinds of prefab floating harbors ready to deploy.

But there are two issues, the first is delivery. Which should be pretty straightforward. The US Navy and Corps of Engineers know how to do this sort of thing and that coast is pretty tame compared to other places like Alaska where seas are far more rugged. The second is distribution. And that is going to require coordination with the UN and all the other agencies involved. And is likely to be the far bigger challenge than just getting bulk goods into Gaza harbor. They are going to need distribution warehouses, trucks, and lots of staff and security. It is going to be a vastly larger job than just deploying a prefab floating harbor and sending some ships full of supplies.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Judas Maccabeus
Posts: 4182
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:13 am
Location: Maryland
Affiliation: Con. Menno.

Re: Gaza's Irrational Hatred

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Ken wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:34 pm
Judas Maccabeus wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 8:47 pm America is going to build a floating port right next to the coast. What could possibly go wrong there?
I'm not sure what you are referring to in terms of things that might go wrong.

The US is the world leader in terms of amphibious operations and there isn't even a remotely close second. It has been that way since the Normandy Invasion. Every major war the US has ever fought since the Civil War has been an amphibious operation of some sort. Compared to say Russia which has never in its history conducted one. And every possible future US war being planned for is also likely to be amphibious. All those trillions of dollars going to the Pentagon didn't JUST go to gold plated toilet seats. If there is one thing that the US military and Corps of Engineers know how to do it is build a temporary floating harbor. In fact, the Navy probably has all kinds of prefab floating harbors ready to deploy.

But there are two issues, the first is delivery. Which should be pretty straightforward. The US Navy and Corps of Engineers know how to do this sort of thing and that coast is pretty tame compared to other places like Alaska where seas are far more rugged. The second is distribution. And that is going to require coordination with the UN and all the other agencies involved. And is likely to be the far bigger challenge than just getting bulk goods into Gaza harbor. They are going to need distribution warehouses, trucks, and lots of staff and security. It is going to be a vastly larger job than just deploying a prefab floating harbor and sending some ships full of supplies.
In the middle of a war zone? What happens when the first Israeli 2000lb bomb goes astray? The first Hamas rocket explodes?

We get sucked in. I already hear the faint sucking sound, it is only a matter of time.
1 x
:hug:
Ken
Posts: 16996
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Gaza's Irrational Hatred

Post by Ken »

Judas Maccabeus wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:24 pm
Ken wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:34 pm
Judas Maccabeus wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 8:47 pm America is going to build a floating port right next to the coast. What could possibly go wrong there?
I'm not sure what you are referring to in terms of things that might go wrong.

The US is the world leader in terms of amphibious operations and there isn't even a remotely close second. It has been that way since the Normandy Invasion. Every major war the US has ever fought since the Civil War has been an amphibious operation of some sort. Compared to say Russia which has never in its history conducted one. And every possible future US war being planned for is also likely to be amphibious. All those trillions of dollars going to the Pentagon didn't JUST go to gold plated toilet seats. If there is one thing that the US military and Corps of Engineers know how to do it is build a temporary floating harbor. In fact, the Navy probably has all kinds of prefab floating harbors ready to deploy.

But there are two issues, the first is delivery. Which should be pretty straightforward. The US Navy and Corps of Engineers know how to do this sort of thing and that coast is pretty tame compared to other places like Alaska where seas are far more rugged. The second is distribution. And that is going to require coordination with the UN and all the other agencies involved. And is likely to be the far bigger challenge than just getting bulk goods into Gaza harbor. They are going to need distribution warehouses, trucks, and lots of staff and security. It is going to be a vastly larger job than just deploying a prefab floating harbor and sending some ships full of supplies.
In the middle of a war zone? What happens when the first Israeli 2000lb bomb goes astray? The first Hamas rocket explodes?

We get sucked in. I already hear the faint sucking sound, it is only a matter of time.
Well yes.

That is what all the aid deliveries face today whether by sea, air, or land. Doesn't matter who is doing the aid deliveries, the UN, private groups, or the US Navy.

You can better believe that if the US Navy and American combat engineers are going in to build a floating harbor to feed Gaza then they are going to be communicating very very clearly with the Israeli government about where they are and what they are doing and if Israel doesn't want a massive scandal and Congressional investigations about why there are dead US servicemembers at the hands of Israeli bombs. And if they don't want to jeopardize Israeli-US relations. Then they will stay well away.

Likewise with Hamas. If they don't want a US cruise missile or Reaper drone taking out their leadership in Qatar in a retaliatory strike. Then they best behave themselves and avoid disrupting an international effort to bring aid into Gaza. Because it would be an international effort even if the US takes the lead and does 95% of the work. That's how these things work.

Yes, bad things happen in war. But that is why the US would be sending in military combat engineers to build a floating harbor, not some civilian marine engineering firm. Because that is what they are paid to do, work in combat zones.

The US is already involved in Gaza. They are making air drops and are in the middle of the negotiations. But I think the diplomats and Biden Administration are sophisticated enough to avoid unnecessary escalation or getting sucked into a war in Gaza. This isn't like getting sucked into Vietnam to prop up the French or some such. The US has zero long term interest in Gaza other than seeing that it isn't some global flash point.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
User avatar
Josh
Posts: 25053
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Re: Gaza's Irrational Hatred

Post by Josh »

Maybe we’ll get to see Israel reenact the USS Liberty incident.
0 x
User avatar
JohnHurt
Posts: 879
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:04 pm
Location: Buffalo Valley, TN
Affiliation: Primitive Christian
Contact:

Re: Gaza's Irrational Hatred

Post by JohnHurt »

Jazman wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:13 pm
Ken wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 1:47 pm Most countries in the middle east had substantial Jewish populations going back centuries or millennia.

Most Jews were forced out due to overt actions by Arab/Muslim governments in the 1940s and 1950s or just the fact that it was no longer safe for them to remain living within majority Muslim populations. Many lost all their property and wealth when they had to flee, mostly to Israel, the US, or to a lesser degree, Western Europe.

The Arab world in the 1940s and 1950s basically made it clear that they were not interested in maintaining multi-ethnic and multi-faith societies.
Do you know Why they chose to do that, then? What was the impetus or motivation then and not say, 50, 100, etc yrs earlier...?
Jazman,

It was the rise of Zionism that has created the hatred that Muslims have for the Zionist Jews.

Jews and Muslims lived together without problems in Palestine under the Ottoman Empire, and beginning in 1881 Jews were admitted to Palestine under Muslim rule.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Aliyah
At this time, the persecution of Jews occurred in Russia and Eastern Europe, and not Muslim lands.

Zionism has always been funded by the Rothchild Banking family.
The First Aliyah occurred from 1881 to 1903 and did not go as planned as Zionists ran out of funds.[18] The Rothschild organization helped the Zionist movement by funding Zionists and by purchasing large settlements and by creating new settlements.[19]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Aliyah#History
Zionism started with Theodor Herzl in 1896, and taught that Judaism is no longer a "cultural" or "religious" group, but a "chosen race" of people who are appointed by God to inherit Palestine.
Herzl dedicated Zionism to the Rothchild family:
Der Judenstaat (German, lit. 'The State of the Jews',[1] commonly rendered[2] as The Jewish State) is a pamphlet written by Theodor Herzl and published in February 1896 in Leipzig and Vienna by M. Breitenstein's Verlags-Buchhandlung. It is subtitled with "Versuch einer modernen Lösung der Judenfrage" ("Proposal of a modern solution for the Jewish question") and was originally called "Address to the Rothschilds", referring to the Rothschild family banking dynasty,[3] as Herzl planned to deliver it as a speech to the Rothschild family.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Judenstaat
Zionism was established by the Rothchild family:
Baron Abraham Edmond Benjamin James de Rothschild (Hebrew: הברון אברהם אדמונד בנימין ג'יימס רוטשילד HaBaron Avraham Edmond Binyamin Ya'akov Rotshield; 19 August 1845 – 2 November 1934) was a French member of the Rothschild banking family. A strong supporter of Zionism, his large donations lent significant support to the movement during its early years, which helped lead to the establishment of the State of Israel – where he is simply known as "The Baron Rothschild", "HaBaron" (lit. "The Baron"), or "Hanadiv Hayeduah" (lit. "The noble donator").
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmond_Ja ... Rothschild

The British conquered Palestine from the Ottoman Empire in 1917, and promised Palestine as a Jewish homeland in a letter written to Lord Rothchild called the "Balfour Declaration".
The Balfour Declaration was a public statement issued by the British Government in 1917 during the First World War announcing its support for the establishment of a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine, then an Ottoman region with a small minority Jewish population. The declaration was contained in a letter dated 2 November 1917 from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour to Lord Rothschild, a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland. The text of the declaration was published in the press on 9 November 1917.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
In return for giving Palestine to the Zionists, I believe that the Rothchild Banks brought the United States into WWI on the side of the Allies.
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=6223

After WWII, the Zionist used the Rothchild funding to procure weapons, and then began to attack the British that had brought them into Palestine in the first place, and ran the British out of Palestine. The UN wanted an independent Jewish State and independent Arab state. There is only a Zionist state now:
On 22 July 1946, Irgun bombed the British administrative headquarters for Palestine, killing 91.[155][156][157][158][159][160] The attack initially had the approval of the Haganah. It was conceived as a response to Operation Agatha (a series of raids, including one on the Jewish Agency, by the British) and was the deadliest directed at the British during the Mandate era.[159][160] The Jewish insurgency continued throughout 1946 and 1947 despite concerted efforts by the British military and Palestine Police Force to suppress it. British efforts to mediate a negotiated solution with Jewish and Arab representatives also failed as the Jews were unwilling to accept any solution that did not involve a Jewish state and suggested a partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab states, while the Arabs were adamant that a Jewish state in any part of Palestine was unacceptable and that the only solution was a unified Palestine under Arab rule. In February 1947, the British referred the Palestine issue to the newly formed United Nations. On 15 May 1947, the UN General Assembly resolved that a Special Committee be created "to prepare ... a report on the question of Palestine."[161] The Report of the Committee[162] proposed a plan to replace the British Mandate with "an independent Arab State, an independent Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem [...] the last to be under an International Trusteeship System."[163] Meanwhile, the Jewish insurgency continued and peaked in July 1947, with a series of widespread guerrilla raids culminating in the Sergeants affair, in which the Irgun took two British sergeants hostage as attempted leverage against the planned execution of three Irgun operatives. After the executions were carried out, the Irgun killed the two British soldiers, hanged their bodies from trees, and left a booby trap at the scene which injured a British soldier. The incident caused widespread outrage in the UK.[164] In September 1947, the British cabinet decided to evacuate Palestine as the Mandate was no longer tenable.[164]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel#British_Mandate
The Zionists are murderers of the Palestinian people. They will kill anyone, even the British, to gain control. They are absolutely insane, and have acquired several hundred nuclear weapons, against international law, to destroy everyone in the world if their country is invaded:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

The Muslims in the Middle East do not see Palestine as a different country, but that all Muslim countries are brothers. They see that their land in Palestine was stolen by the British and given to the Rothchild Zionists. They see the murder of the people of the West Bank and Gaza as the murder of their own families. Their land has been taken by force, and they see no problem with it being returned to them by force. There will never be peace in the Middle East as long as the Zionists rule Israel and deny the vote to the Palestinian people.

Zionism is the reason why the Muslim world now hates the Jews. They were at peace before Herzl and the Rothchilds invented this theory that the people that practice Judaism are really "racial Israel". And the Anti-Semitism created by Zionism has hurt the Jews that oppose Zionism too.

It is insane that anyone would believe this Zionist garbage, that the Jews are Israel, especially Christians who want peace in the Middle East. It is not in the Bible. All of the prophecies of Israel in the Bible state that True Israel will follow Christ as their King, not Zionism.

Zionism is a new, kooky, man-made religion, based on racial superiority, that is causing untold human suffering. Zionism needs to be voted out of the State of Israel, with all people given the right to vote. If all of the people in Palestine could vote, Zionism would disappear tomorrow.
0 x
"He replaced the teachings of Christ with his own opinions, and gave us a religion based on the doctrines of men."
User avatar
JohnHurt
Posts: 879
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:04 pm
Location: Buffalo Valley, TN
Affiliation: Primitive Christian
Contact:

Re: Gaza's Irrational Hatred

Post by JohnHurt »

Josh wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 8:40 am Maybe we’ll get to see Israel reenact the USS Liberty incident.
The USS Liberty was a false flag. Lyndon Johnson allowed the State of Israel to attack, bomb, and machine gun the lifeboats of the USS Liberty, so that the sinking of the USS Liberty would be blamed on Egypt and bring the US into war on the side of Israel.

Somehow, the USS Liberty survived the Israeli attack and made it back to port, with most of the crew either wounded or dead. Neither the Johnson Administration, or the State of Israel were ever held accountable for the murders of our US servicemen on board the USS Liberty.

So, no, don't join the US Navy to serve on some "floating port" idea. You may be the next "false flag".
1 x
"He replaced the teachings of Christ with his own opinions, and gave us a religion based on the doctrines of men."
Ken
Posts: 16996
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Gaza's Irrational Hatred

Post by Ken »

Josh wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 8:40 am Maybe we’ll get to see Israel reenact the USS Liberty incident.
If they do, that might be the catalyst that finally allows the US to extract itself from being so closely tied to Israel and subsidizing Israeli expansionism.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14830
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Gaza's Irrational Hatred

Post by Bootstrap »

We need compassion for victims on both sides. And most Gazans are victims. Most hatred is not about intentionally and deliberately killing people. It's closing our heart, refusing to have compassion, saying it's OK if 30,000 people die as a direct result of military actions, saying starvation of civilians is OK, or denying that it is happening. We see this in the other side in some news sources Gazans are seeing, denial of the horrible terrorism on October 7th, saying it didn't even happen, closing their hearts to the victims. That's bad on either side.

Hamas did terrible things to Israeli civilians on October 7th. Ever since then, Israel has been doing terrible things to Gazan civilians. I think our sympathies should be with the victims.

This kind of starvation is not OK.

Image

Yazan Kafarneh on his hospital bed in Rafah, southern Gaza, on Sunday. By Monday, he was dead.
It is all too easy to trace the skull beneath the Gazan boy’s face, the pallid skin stretching tight over every curve of bone and sagging with every hollow. His chin juts with a disturbing sharpness. His flesh has shrunk and shriveled, life reduced to little more than a thin mask over an imminent death.

In one of a series of news photographs of the boy, Yazan Kafarneh, taken with his family’s permission as he struggled for his life, his long-lashed eyes stare out, unfocused. In that widely shared picture online, his right hand, bandaged over an intravenous line, contracts in on itself at an awkward angle, a visible marker of his cerebral palsy.

He was 10, but in photographs from his last days at a clinic in southern Gaza, he looks both small for his age and at the same time ancient. By Monday, Yazan was dead.

The pictures of Yazan circulating on social media have quickly made him the face of starvation in Gaza.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
User avatar
JohnHurt
Posts: 879
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:04 pm
Location: Buffalo Valley, TN
Affiliation: Primitive Christian
Contact:

Re: Gaza's Irrational Hatred

Post by JohnHurt »

Bootstrap wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 3:19 pm We need compassion for victims on both sides. And most Gazans are victims. Most hatred is not about intentionally and deliberately killing people. It's closing our heart, refusing to have compassion, saying it's OK if 30,000 people die as a direct result of military actions, saying starvation of civilians is OK, or denying that it is happening. We see this in the other side in some news sources Gazans are seeing, denial of the horrible terrorism on October 7th, saying it didn't even happen, closing their hearts to the victims. That's bad on either side.

Hamas did terrible things to Israeli civilians on October 7th. Ever since then, Israel has been doing terrible things to Gazan civilians. I think our sympathies should be with the victims.
I can only pray that Christ can bring peace to the both Muslims and the Jews.

Out of all of the religions of the world, the Abrahamic religions of Islam and Judaism - these two religions should be fertile fields for planting the message of the Prince of Peace. Maybe Christians are teaching the wrong doctrines.

Perhaps Christ's message of non-violence is what is needed change the Middle East.

Leo Tolstoy studied the Doctrines of Christ, and put them into practice in his own life. Tolstoy wrote "A Letter to a Hindu" to Gandhi, who used the Christian principles of non-violence to overthrow the British rule of India.

I understand Dr. Martin Luther King studied Gandhi, and preached Christian non-violence in his ministry to overcome the racial injustices in the USA.

The Christian teaching of Non-Violence is powerful, and it does work especially well when mixed with faith.

As Christ said:
Matt 21:(21) Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

(22) And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
A mountain is the prophetic symbol for the governments of men.

The practice and teaching of non-violence, even by non-Christians such as Gandhi, has the power to remove violent government and cast them into the sea. A Christian believing with faith, and doubting not, could do even more.

Perhaps that is where the Anabaptist can change the world, through the teaching of non-Violence. The rest of Christianity seems to have forgotten this doctrine. May God raise up Christian men to teach this doctrine.

Many blessings,

John
1 x
"He replaced the teachings of Christ with his own opinions, and gave us a religion based on the doctrines of men."
Judas Maccabeus
Posts: 4182
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:13 am
Location: Maryland
Affiliation: Con. Menno.

Re: Gaza's Irrational Hatred

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Ken wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 1:17 pm
Josh wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 8:40 am Maybe we’ll get to see Israel reenact the USS Liberty incident.
If they do, that might be the catalyst that finally allows the US to extract itself from being so closely tied to Israel and subsidizing Israeli expansionism.
Did not work last time. If anything they got more afterwards.
0 x
:hug:
Post Reply