Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Neto]

Navalny. I suspect his body has already been cremated.

[temporal1]

Navalny. I suspect his body has already been cremated.

P.1 / Putin and Carlson: viewtopic.php?t=6530

Putin is an interesting speaker, even factoring for language and cultural barriers.
A fairly stark contrast to any [living] western leader/politician. [allowed air time]
He even relays an accomplished sense of wry humor. Difficult when crossing language and culture.

Like ALL gov leaders, politicians, Russian or western, everything he says can be trusted to be ultimately self-serving.

Listen. Be interested. Guarded. Don’t turn your back.

Diplomacy is about communicating with those you don’t care for or trust.
If not, no need for diplomacy.

The current admin/career politicians have no interest in diplomacy. Observed through their actions.

[Neto]

Navalny. I suspect his body has already been cremated.

P.1 / Putin and Carlson: viewtopic.php?t=6530

Putin is an interesting speaker, even factoring for language and cultural barriers.
A fairly stark contrast to any [living] western leader/politician. [allowed air time]
He even relays an accomplished sense of wry humor. Difficult when crossing language and culture.

Like ALL gov leaders, politicians, Russian or western, everything he says can be trusted to be ultimately self-serving.

Listen. Be interested. Guarded. Don’t turn your back.

Diplomacy is about communicating with those you don’t care for or trust.
If not, no need for diplomacy.

The current admin/career politicians have no interest in diplomacy. Observed through their actions.

Nixon's comments after the fall of the USSR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlNSnvYZXyw

[temporal1]

“Navalny’s body found bruised in Arctic morgue”
Injuries found on opposition leader's head and chest when his body was brought to local hospital, but no autopsy has yet been performed
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... ue-arctic/

[temporal1]

One man’s opinion:

AP / Hungary’s Orban says Trump’s comeback as president ‘only serious chance’ for end of Ukraine war
https://apnews.com/article/orban-trump- ... 2be94cbe27

[Soloist]

One man’s opinion:

AP / Hungary’s Orban says Trump’s comeback as president ‘only serious chance’ for end of Ukraine war
https://apnews.com/article/orban-trump- ... 2be94cbe27

That makes sense. When America stops funding the war, Ukraine likely will have to settle for terms or EU will have to seriously step up their game.

I’m not endorsing this, just saying that Trump seems in favor at least from what I’ve read in removing support.

I point out that without French support, the revolution would have failed.

[Ken]

One man’s opinion:

AP / Hungary’s Orban says Trump’s comeback as president ‘only serious chance’ for end of Ukraine war
https://apnews.com/article/orban-trump- ... 2be94cbe27

That makes sense. When America stops funding the war, Ukraine likely will have to settle for terms or EU will have to seriously step up their game.

I’m not endorsing this, just saying that Trump seems in favor at least from what I’ve read in removing support.

I point out that without French support, the revolution would have failed.

That presumes that Russia actually wants to reach a settlement. There is absolutely no evidence to support that notion. All of their rhetoric and actions are to the contrary. And constant war is to Putin's political advantage, even if the country suffers economically.

[Soloist]

That presumes that Russia actually wants to reach a settlement. There is absolutely no evidence to support that notion. All of their rhetoric and actions are to the contrary. And constant war is to Putin's political advantage, even if the country suffers economically.

Its easy to settle especially if the terms are in your favor. Simple terms would be fulfilling Putin's stated goal, expand his controlled territory and eventually subvert the country based on the treaty terms.

Politically, he looks good for ending the war, he looks good for "winning" and he ends with more territory and promise of subversion within a reasonable amount of years. This won't happen if the US continues to militarily support Ukraine but if the US decides to not support, and EU doesn't step up to the plate, public opinion can shift against the leader continuing to throw his own into a hopeless cause.
Also, Putin did state his goals (as absurd as they are) so he has expressed rhetoric in favor of "peace"

The goal should be obvious, Putin would prefer taking over without killing and destroying what he is taking over.

Perhaps he might be petty enough to try to destroy it if he can't take it, but, he does want it.

[Ken]

That presumes that Russia actually wants to reach a settlement. There is absolutely no evidence to support that notion. All of their rhetoric and actions are to the contrary. And constant war is to Putin's political advantage, even if the country suffers economically.

Its easy to settle especially if the terms are in your favor. Simple terms would be fulfilling Putin's stated goal, expand his controlled territory and eventually subvert the country based on the treaty terms.

Politically, he looks good for ending the war, he looks good for "winning" and he ends with more territory and promise of subversion within a reasonable amount of years. This won't happen if the US continues to militarily support Ukraine but if the US decides to not support, and EU doesn't step up to the plate, public opinion can shift against the leader continuing to throw his own into a hopeless cause.
Also, Putin did state his goals (as absurd as they are) so he has expressed rhetoric in favor of "peace"

The goal should be obvious, Putin would prefer taking over without killing and destroying what he is taking over.

Perhaps he might be petty enough to try to destroy it if he can't take it, but, he does want it.

Putin's stated terms are the complete and total genocide of Ukraine and absorption of the entire country of Ukraine as a new Russian-speaking part of the Russian Federation. He has said this.

Ending the war is politically bad for Putin because then the focus becomes domestic and Russia is not doing well domestically. Endless war is the political ideology of dictators.

And ending the war isn't up to any US leader anyway. If the EU chooses to continue to support Ukraine the war will continue. The EU economy is vastly larger than that of Russia. In fact, just the Nordic and Baltic countries alone have a GDP larger than Russia.

Plus, unwinding all the sanctions on Russia will require the full cooperation of Ukraine and the entire EU. It isn't something any one country can unilaterally do. If Taliban never settled with the US after 20 years of war, what makes you think Ukraine will concede and capitulate to a foreign invader when they have a vastly more sophisticated military and economy behind them.

History is also against Russia. Can you point to a single instance in the past 100 years where a former colonial power managed to seize and hold on to any former colonial possession that had subsequently gained independence? A single example of this happening anywhere in the world?

[Soloist]

Putin's stated terms are the complete and total genocide of Ukraine and absorption of the entire country of Ukraine as a new Russian-speaking part of the Russian Federation. He has said this.

At one point he had said the war was over Nazi and protecting the Russian citizens there. His goals change of course depending on political expediency.
I don't see how you are disagreeing with me as I stated his intentions are basically that, he just hasn't said that and you know he hasn't actually said that.

And ending the war isn't up to any US leader anyway. If the EU chooses to continue to support Ukraine the war will continue. The EU economy is vastly larger than that of Russia. In fact, just the Nordic and Baltic countries alone have a GDP larger than Russia.

Did you even read what I said?

Plus, unwinding all the sanctions on Russia will require the full cooperation of Ukraine and the entire EU. It isn't something any one country can unilaterally do. If Taliban never settled with the US after 20 years of war, what makes you think Ukraine will concede and capitulate to a foreign invader when they have a vastly more sophisticated military and economy behind them.

Sanctions have a way of quietly going away and it doesn't need the full cooperation of an independent Ukraine. Surely you know how these things end up working when government changes happen. I'm not endorsing any of this.

History is also against Russia. Can you point to a single instance in the past 100 years where a former colonial power managed to seize and hold on to any former colonial possession that had subsequently gained independence? A single example of this happening anywhere in the world?

We've had this argument before, I'll agree to disagree with you.