Agreed.
In my perspective, when I consider the teachings within the book of Matthew, Jesus used hyperbole based upon some popular cultural idioms of the day to convey a concept vividly; His intentions were not self-centered but rather "other-centered" so that His disciples could understand the teaching. It is good to remember that Jesus was teaching some rather advanced heavenly concepts to a group that often did not have much more than a basic education. The use of local idioms in hyperbole is recognised as an effective tool for such. I am sure that Neto can convey more on the use of local idioms than I can, but Neto's experiences with the Banawa are an excellent example of this teaching method. (Thank you, Neto, for providing that insight).
Also within my perspective, exaggeration is used for selfish-purposes: self-importance, self-promotion, ambition to win, etc. Whether it is the exaggeration and overuse of statistics or charts or graphs, to extrapolate a personal viewpoint, I do not think that would be something that is consistent with Matthew 5 as Jesus taught it:
37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.
I agree. Also exaggeration to deceive someone is wrong and untruthful as well.
As for the verse on letting our' yes ' be 'yes' and our 'no' be 'no'. When the men superintendents at our church, with their long johns (assuming that, of course) and trousers set the thermostat low without consideration of the ladies in skirts and nylons, church is cold...brrrrr. Hubby knows this and if he asks me after church if there were icicles forming around my knees and I say 'yes"....???
Grace wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 10:52 am
I agree. Also exaggeration to deceive someone is wrong and untruthful as well.
As for the verse on letting our' yes ' be 'yes' and our 'no' be 'no'. When the men superintendents at our church, with their long johns (assuming that, of course) and trousers set the thermostat low without consideration of the ladies in skirts and nylons, church is cold...brrrrr. Hubby knows this and if he asks me after church if there were icicles forming around my knees and I say 'yes"....???
There is a difference when the other party knows you are exaggerating to make a point or tell a story.
Recently my employer started cracking down on the lengths of breaktimes. We had one person who was really abusing the policy. During a shift meeting, I made the comment on how someone was in the breakroom "like ten times in a hour." Everyone knew what I meant, and the issue was dealt with... much to my surprise.
Sudsy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:50 pm
Is 'stretching the truth' lieing ? For instance, 'All they do is lie - you can't believe a word they say'.
I would suggest the answer lies with the INTENT.
If you are INTENDING to deceive through an overt lie, exaggeration, or lie of omission then it is a lie. Even if the words you say or don't say might be technically true.
If you are just using hyperbole to make a point then it is just an ordinary figure of speech, especially if your audience also sees it as such.
Likewise, if you make an honest mistake, mis-statement, typo, etc. without intending to deceive then that really isn't a lie either, even if the statement is factually untrue.
1 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Sudsy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:50 pm
Is 'stretching the truth' lieing ? For instance, 'All they do is lie - you can't believe a word they say'.
I would suggest the answer lies with the INTENT.
If you are INTENDING to deceive through an overt lie, exaggeration, or lie of omission then it is a lie. Even if the words you say or don't say might be technically true.
If you are just using hyperbole to make a point then it is just an ordinary figure of speech, especially if your audience also sees it as such.
Likewise, if you make an honest mistake, mis-statement, typo, etc. without intending to deceive then that really isn't a lie either, even if the statement is factually untrue.
Perhaps the intent is not to deceive but rather to add more weight to what is said so that the point is considered as irrefutable although what is added to give more weight may not be true, is this a lie ?
Sudsy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:50 pm
Is 'stretching the truth' lieing ? For instance, 'All they do is lie - you can't believe a word they say'.
I would suggest the answer lies with the INTENT.
If you are INTENDING to deceive through an overt lie, exaggeration, or lie of omission then it is a lie. Even if the words you say or don't say might be technically true.
If you are just using hyperbole to make a point then it is just an ordinary figure of speech, especially if your audience also sees it as such.
Likewise, if you make an honest mistake, mis-statement, typo, etc. without intending to deceive then that really isn't a lie either, even if the statement is factually untrue.
Perhaps the intent is not to deceive but rather to add more weight to what is said so that the point is considered as irrefutable although what is added to give more weight may not be true, is this a lie ?
I would say that if your intent is to convince the recipient of your words of something that is NOT TRUE then it is a lie no matter how you go about it or what specific words you use or don't use.
If your intent is to simply emphasize a point using exaggeration or hyperbole then that is just a common figure of speech that we all use without thinking and not a lie.
I'm so hungry, I could eat a horse.
My feet are killing me.
That plane ride took forever.
This is the best book ever written.
I'm so lonesome I could die
The pen is mightier than the sword.
I've told you this 20,000 times.
Cry me a river.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Sudsy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:50 pm
Is 'stretching the truth' lieing ? For instance, 'All they do is lie - you can't believe a word they say'.
Perhaps the intent is not to deceive but rather to add more weight to what is said so that the point is considered as irrefutable although what is added to give more weight may not be true, is this a lie ?
The question that I have is: why the need to add more weight? Why is there a need to be considered irrefutable? If dealing with a teen, regarding the question of obedience, any distortion of the truth be it stretching or embellishing will be quickly sussed by the teen and then credibility to the point is destroyed. Better to have actual examples from the teens' world than to engage stretching of the truth.
Case in point from our own parenting: one of our teen sons wanted to hitch a ride with his acquaintance who abused alcohol and probably drugs. We told him no, that we would bring him home because we are concerned about that acquaintance and his sobriety; that the accident of the previous year in which teens died serves as a reminder of being careful of those who drive under the influence. Of course we received the usual eye-rolling, etc. Sadly, the acquaintance and two other teens died that night in a roll-over. Our son never questioned our decisions about this matter again. Real example; no exaggeration.
After all that I have to say "yes", stretching or embellishment is contributing to falsehood as many (especially teens) suss the attempt. Stay with the unvarnished truth and give real time examples.
Josh wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:29 pm
An expression like “nobody goes there” often means it’s rarely attended as opposed to completely vacant of ever having any people.
There is a certain kind of “literalist” who will complain this is lying.
As an aside, 'nobody goes there' is part of a quote attributed to Yogi Berra the famous New York Yankee baseball catcher. He had a number of quotes call 'Yogi-isms'.
Some I love -
'Nobody goes there anymore because of the crowds'
'You can observe a lot by watching'
'We made too many wrong mistakes'
'It's like deja vu all over again'
'You better cut the pizza in four pieces because I'm not hungry enough to eat six.'
'The future ain't what it used to be.'
'Baseball is 90 percent mental. The other half is physical.'
As an aside, 'nobody goes there' is part of a quote attributed to Yogi Berra the famous New York Yankee baseball catcher. He had a number of quotes call 'Yogi-isms'.
Some I love -
'Nobody goes there anymore because of the crowds'
'You can observe a lot by watching'
'We made too many wrong mistakes'
'It's like deja vu all over again'
'You better cut the pizza in four pieces because I'm not hungry enough to eat six.'
'The future ain't what it used to be.'
'Baseball is 90 percent mental. The other half is physical.'
Those are great fun. I never heard of him but these quotes remind me of the spoonerisms we enjoyed quoting in my youth.
Those are great fun. I never heard of him but these quotes remind me of the spoonerisms we enjoyed quoting in my youth.