No human remains found 2 years after claims of ‘mass graves’ in Canada

[Josh]

Let’s get back on topic.

There were allegations of mass graves.

Upon further investigation, there weren’t any mass graves.

The end.

[Bootstrap]

Arson is an extremely difficult crime to solve especially if there are no witnesses. There is a reason why they do it in the middle of the night when no one is around and not at 12 noon on a Sunday afternoon. You might suspect certain people but proving it is something different.

But the lack of forensic evidence does not mean that the church was not burned down.

[Bootstrap]

Let’s get back on topic.

There were allegations of mass graves.

Upon further investigation, there weren’t any mass graves.

The end.

Yes there were, in many, many places. But not in all places.

So suppose someone took your child away to a school, you never found out what happened to your child. You find out that there are mass graves near some of these schools. But not at your child's school. At least, not yet. You also know that there was horrible physical and sexual abuse at some of these schools.

Problem solved? I don't think so.

[Josh]

Let’s get back on topic.

There were allegations of mass graves.

Upon further investigation, there weren’t any mass graves.

The end.

Yes there were, in many, many places. But not in all places.

So suppose someone took your child away to a school, you never found out what happened to your child. You find out that there are mass graves near some of these schools. But not at your child's school. At least, not yet. You also know that there was horrible physical and sexual abuse at some of these schools.

Problem solved? I don't think so.

Perhaps you should start a different thread to discuss that, then.

There were also horrible physical and sexual abuse is indigenous communities, which is what led to well minded social workers deciding to remove children from homes en masse.

[Bootstrap]

There were also horrible physical and sexual abuse is indigenous communities, which is what led to well minded social workers deciding to remove children from homes en masse.

And to forbid them to speak their own language or identify with their own culture?

There was clearly an attempt to wipe out their language and culture. And I'm not sure we can trust all the reasons given for taking children away - if they take away your children to reeducate them, I'm pretty sure they will come up with good sounding reasons.

I think we should have compassion for these children and these families. They really were victims of wrongdoing done by Christians. The same Jesus who stood up for the poor and vulnerable against fine religious folk of his day would have had a few things to say here.

[Josh]

There were also horrible physical and sexual abuse is indigenous communities, which is what led to well minded social workers deciding to remove children from homes en masse.

And to forbid them to speak their own language or identify with their own culture?

There was clearly an attempt to wipe out their language and culture. And I'm not sure we can trust all the reasons given for taking children away - if they take away your children to reeducate them, I'm pretty sure they will come up with good sounding reasons.

Which has exactly nothing to do with claims there were mass graves that turned out to be nothing at all.

If you want to litigate the evils of the various residential schools set up, you may do so, but so far you just seem to be trying to change the topic from (a) false claims of mass graves and (b) subsequent significant acts of arson against church buildings due to those false claims.

Making up fake claims of atrocities is a problem, and then present day church burnings based on that is a bigger problem.

[Bootstrap]

There were also horrible physical and sexual abuse is indigenous communities, which is what led to well minded social workers deciding to remove children from homes en masse.

And to forbid them to speak their own language or identify with their own culture?

There was clearly an attempt to wipe out their language and culture. And I'm not sure we can trust all the reasons given for taking children away - if they take away your children to reeducate them, I'm pretty sure they will come up with good sounding reasons.

Which has exactly nothing to do with claims there were mass graves that turned out to be nothing at all.

It has everything to do with that. The children were taken away. Nobody knows what happened to them. Very likely, they died due to some illness and were buried without telling their parents or their communities. That's exactly what the issue is. And in many, many schools, there are mass graves that are either suspected or confirmed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_ ... gravesites

In these particular schools, the initial investigation said that there were likely mass graves in a particular place. Turns out, there weren't. But what happened to these children? We don't know, but that doesn't mean it's OK to take people's children and have those children just disappear without knowing what happened to them.

If you want to litigate the evils of the various residential schools set up, you may do so, but so far you just seem to be trying to change the topic from (a) false claims of mass graves and (b) subsequent significant acts of arson against church buildings due to those false claims.

We agree that arson is bad.

But the "false claims of mass graves" is a little misleading. There were suspected grave sites based on an initial investigation. When they looked, these were not gravesites. That's a limitation on the scientific methods used, not an attempt to make up stories.

The fact that they can't find their graves doesn't mean it's OK to kidnap people's children and then lose track of what happened to them. Are you trying to narrow the scope of the topic so that this no longer matters? I think the lives of these children do matter, and are at the heart of this topic. Whether or not their graves have been found.

Making up fake claims of atrocities is a problem, and then present day church burnings based on that is a bigger problem.

The atrocities happened. And atrocities are a problem. Atrocities are still a problem when you can't find the bodies.

[Josh]

The actual facts and evidence remain: the claims of "mass graves" didn't turn up human remains. That's the topic of this thread.

If you have other complaints with the residential school system of 70 years ago, well, that's a worthy topic of discussion. But you do not support your case by acting like fake claims about fake human remains that don't exist somehow means we should be more sympathetic. It actually turns a lot of otherwise reasonable people off and makes them suspicious of all of the claims of atrocities being made.

Boot you talk a lot about how facts and evidence and law enforcement investigation are important - why is this any different?

[ken_sylvania]

And to forbid them to speak their own language or identify with their own culture?

There was clearly an attempt to wipe out their language and culture. And I'm not sure we can trust all the reasons given for taking children away - if they take away your children to reeducate them, I'm pretty sure they will come up with good sounding reasons.

Which has exactly nothing to do with claims there were mass graves that turned out to be nothing at all.

It has everything to do with that. The children were taken away. Nobody knows what happened to them. Very likely, they died due to some illness and were buried without telling their parents or their communities. That's exactly what the issue is. And in many, many schools, there are mass graves that are either suspected or confirmed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_ ... gravesites

In these particular schools, the initial investigation said that there were likely mass graves in a particular place. Turns out, there weren't. But what happened to these children? We don't know, but that doesn't mean it's OK to take people's children and have those children just disappear without knowing what happened to them.

If you want to litigate the evils of the various residential schools set up, you may do so, but so far you just seem to be trying to change the topic from (a) false claims of mass graves and (b) subsequent significant acts of arson against church buildings due to those false claims.

We agree that arson is bad.

But the "false claims of mass graves" is a little misleading. There were suspected grave sites based on an initial investigation. When they looked, these were not gravesites. That's a limitation on the scientific methods used, not an attempt to make up stories.

The fact that they can't find their graves doesn't mean it's OK to kidnap people's children and then lose track of what happened to them. Are you trying to narrow the scope of the topic so that this no longer matters? I think the lives of these children do matter, and are at the heart of this topic. Whether or not their graves have been found.

Making up fake claims of atrocities is a problem, and then present day church burnings based on that is a bigger problem.

The atrocities happened. And atrocities are a problem. Atrocities are still a problem when you can't find the bodies.

What are you using for the definition of "mass graves"? The Wikipedia links, if I remember correctly, make few allegations of "pits dug in the ground to receive a large number of corpses" which is the actual definition of "mass graves."

By definition a cemetery filled with many individual graves is not a mass grave.

[ohio jones]

The children were taken away. Nobody knows what happened to them. Very likely, they died due to some illness and were buried without telling their parents or their communities.

Assuming that most of them died at the residential schools is quite a leap of logic, though. Is there any evidence at all to support this?