Good things about migration

[ken_sylvania]

I am very sorry that living in America has made you unsatisfied and ungrateful and given you a poor work ethic.

I simply restated what barnhart said, except the mirror of them. I think we can all agree that America's presiding cultural values right now are excessive consumerism, consumption, lack of contentment with material things, and chasing the dollar. None of that is good.

As far as work ethic goes, there are even plenty of threads on MennoNet complaining about the poor work ethic of younger workers in America.

(One might say I am not an American nationalist. I don't think America represents the kingdom of heaven, or anything even close to it.)

You didn't believe what you said?
You can't have it both ways. If it's true that America will make immigrants ungrateful, unsatisfied and give them a poor work ethic, then we have to conclude that those words describe you. Has immigrating to America made you ungrateful, unsatisfied, and given you a poor work ethic?

[Josh]

I am very sorry that living in America has made you unsatisfied and ungrateful and given you a poor work ethic.

I simply restated what barnhart said, except the mirror of them. I think we can all agree that America's presiding cultural values right now are excessive consumerism, consumption, lack of contentment with material things, and chasing the dollar. None of that is good.

As far as work ethic goes, there are even plenty of threads on MennoNet complaining about the poor work ethic of younger workers in America.

(One might say I am not an American nationalist. I don't think America represents the kingdom of heaven, or anything even close to it.)

You didn't believe what you said?
You can't have it both ways. If it's true that America will make immigrants ungrateful, unsatisfied and give them a poor work ethic, then we have to conclude that those words describe you. Has immigrating to America made you ungrateful, unsatisfied, and given you a poor work ethic?

Let's try the converse.

Did my arrival in America mean that Americans had something to learn from me about being satisfied with fewer material things, the value of family and relationships, work ethic, and gratitude?

Doesn't that seem like kind of a ridiculous claim to make in the general?

[joshuabgood]

While there is much to perhaps wish were different (think Japanese internment, Chinese Exclusion, etc etc), on the whole the USA immigration policy has been, and is, quite liberal. And this I think has very substantively benefitted the USA economically and socially and technologically. This doesn't surpise me though, because people, their made in the image of God ingenuity etc, are the world's most valuable resource. The USA is no where near "over crowded." And even the most crowded countries, with the least natural resources, with the innovation and ingenuity of people, have flourished - see Japan.

So I think we are richer and better for the immigrants who come. I could probably get on a board with a "secure border" policy, even though I don't support the nation state system, as the logic of knowing who is coming and who is going and their backgrounds seems to have a utilitarian advantage in any case. And there is actually plenty of money in the USA (if we would stop our military spending and stop giving bombs to blow up things in Israel and Europe) to effectively secure the border and welcome anybody that wants to move here to work, connect with relatives, etc.

[ken_sylvania]

I simply restated what barnhart said, except the mirror of them. I think we can all agree that America's presiding cultural values right now are excessive consumerism, consumption, lack of contentment with material things, and chasing the dollar. None of that is good.

As far as work ethic goes, there are even plenty of threads on MennoNet complaining about the poor work ethic of younger workers in America.

(One might say I am not an American nationalist. I don't think America represents the kingdom of heaven, or anything even close to it.)

You didn't believe what you said?
You can't have it both ways. If it's true that America will make immigrants ungrateful, unsatisfied and give them a poor work ethic, then we have to conclude that those words describe you. Has immigrating to America made you ungrateful, unsatisfied, and given you a poor work ethic?

Let's try the converse.

Did my arrival in America mean that Americans had something to learn from me about being satisfied with fewer material things, the value of family and relationships, work ethic, and gratitude?

Doesn't that seem like kind of a ridiculous claim to make in the general?

You didn't answer my question.

[ken_sylvania]

I simply restated what barnhart said, except the mirror of them. I think we can all agree that America's presiding cultural values right now are excessive consumerism, consumption, lack of contentment with material things, and chasing the dollar. None of that is good.

As far as work ethic goes, there are even plenty of threads on MennoNet complaining about the poor work ethic of younger workers in America.

(One might say I am not an American nationalist. I don't think America represents the kingdom of heaven, or anything even close to it.)

You didn't believe what you said?
You can't have it both ways. If it's true that America will make immigrants ungrateful, unsatisfied and give them a poor work ethic, then we have to conclude that those words describe you. Has immigrating to America made you ungrateful, unsatisfied, and given you a poor work ethic?

Let's try the converse.

Did my arrival in America mean that Americans had something to learn from me about being satisfied with fewer material things, the value of family and relationships, work ethic, and gratitude?

Doesn't that seem like kind of a ridiculous claim to make in the general?

Sometimes the language you use when posting makes you sound arrogant, selfish, and uncaring. If that is how you are in real life (which I doubt - I have heard that in person you are actually quite generous and helpful) then you are not one of the many I mentioned above whom Americans would do well to emulate.

If your behavior is in fact as it has been described to me, then I would say yes, some of your American neighbors would do well to learn from you about the value of family and relationships and generosity.

[Josh]

Sometimes the language you use when posting makes you sound arrogant, selfish, and uncaring. If that is how you are in real life (which I doubt - I have heard that in person you are actually quite generous and helpful) then you are not one of the many I mentioned above whom Americans would do well to emulate.

If your behavior is in fact as it has been described to me, then I would say yes, some of your American neighbors would do well to learn from you about the value of family and relationships and generosity.

I would say that, on net, I learned both good and bad character qualities from American culture. I would venture that I learned many of my good character qualities by becoming a Christian, and then learning from example from other Anabaptist or true-hearted believers, and yes, our neighbours would do well to learn from them.

Overall, I find the stereotypes promoted of migrants as fundamentally "good people" about as silly and unfounded as related stereotypes that they are all "bad" people". On net, more migration isn't going to make America a more virtuous or God-fearing nation.

[ken_sylvania]

Sometimes the language you use when posting makes you sound arrogant, selfish, and uncaring. If that is how you are in real life (which I doubt - I have heard that in person you are actually quite generous and helpful) then you are not one of the many I mentioned above whom Americans would do well to emulate.

If your behavior is in fact as it has been described to me, then I would say yes, some of your American neighbors would do well to learn from you about the value of family and relationships and generosity.

I would say that, on net, I learned both good and bad character qualities from American culture. I would venture that I learned many of my good character qualities by becoming a Christian, and then learning from example from other Anabaptist or true-hearted believers, and yes, our neighbours would do well to learn from them.

Overall, I find the stereotypes promoted of migrants as fundamentally "good people" about as silly and unfounded as related stereotypes that they are all "bad" people". On net, more migration isn't going to make America a more virtuous or God-fearing nation.

If you think that I described migrants as fundamentally "good people" you need a class in reading comprehension, or else I need a class on how to write more effectively.
The thread title is "Good things about migration" and you were complaining that not enough mention was being made about the good things that existing residents can experience as a result of migration. So I mentioned some of the good things that existing residents can experience.

btw - I didn't even say that most immigrants have anything to teach us - just that many of them do....

[Josh]

The thread title is "Good things about migration" and you were complaining that not enough mention was being made about the good things that existing residents can experience as a result of migration. So I mentioned some of the good things that existing residents can experience.

btw - I didn't even say that most immigrants have anything to teach us - just that many of them do....

OK, that's fair. (Admittedly grasping at straws a bit.)

It also seems like something, though, that migration isn't needed to teach folks. Much like people who say that migration is good because we get more diversity of restaurants. The reality is, all that's needed to cook various "ethnic" cuisines is a cookbook and perhaps a trip to Costco.

[ken_sylvania]

The thread title is "Good things about migration" and you were complaining that not enough mention was being made about the good things that existing residents can experience as a result of migration. So I mentioned some of the good things that existing residents can experience.

btw - I didn't even say that most immigrants have anything to teach us - just that many of them do....

OK, that's fair. (Admittedly grasping at straws a bit.)

It also seems like something, though, that migration isn't needed to teach folks. Much like people who say that migration is good because we get more diversity of restaurants. The reality is, all that's needed to cook various "ethnic" cuisines is a cookbook and perhaps a trip to Costco.

There's a difference between saying "Migration is good because ....." vs "One good thing about migration is ......"

[Ernie]

A member of our church is the medical officer in one of the few healthcare clinics in Cox's Bazaar camp where the Rohingya have fled. We get regular email updates from her. There is a lot of need there.

Her former cohort is in our church.