Bunny Trails

[Falco Knotwise]

What you are calling "fake news" stories are mostly internal church investigations and sweeping investigations by local prosecutors into decades long patterns of abuse.

In Ireland, for example, it was a commission involving several different government agencies along with a staff of investigators and church officials that spent 9 years investigating allegations of abuse across hundreds of churches, schools, and orphanages over a period spanning decades. They produced voluminous reports detailing their findings, institution by institution.

A similar process played out here in the US in various cities and states across the country. So no, it is as far from being "fake news" as you can get.

Baloney. The Canadian Catholic genocide story was FAKE NEWS. You tried to spread that nonsense around here and we’re all still waiting for the evidence of dead bodies buried on Church and School grounds. Where are they, Ken? I guess I won’t be hearing back from you on that one, again.

That was FAKE NEWS.

The Magdalene Laundries story, which I think was associated with all those Red Dress Handmaiden protests?

FAKE NEWS! Prove me wrong,

Now, I haven’t had time to check this latest one, which I already admitted in my last post.

In fact, I didn’t call this one fake news, at least not yet.

I’ll give my assessment of this one when I’m ready, Ken. Be patient.

Go read the original reports and tell us which parts are wrong. The are available and easily found. Better yet, here they are. Go knock yourself out: https://childabusecommission.ie/

Although if it was all fake news then why did Pope Benedict XVI write a pastoral letter of apology for all of the abuse that had been carried out by Catholic clergy in Ireland. And why did Benedict establish his on Vatican panel to conduct their own that included 9 cardinals and archbishops? And how come 82 different priests in Ireland were convicted of abuse?

Okay. I will look into this. I’ll tell you from the outset I have my doubts about it. As Ive already said, when the fact that 80 percent of abuses cases in America turned out to be about pederasty, no one in the Catholic Church would even acknowledge that undeniably established fact.

They WANTED this to be about child abuse, not about homosexuality and they WANTED to establish that. So, don’t expect me to just fall all over the place on a claim that “internal investigations” did, in fact, establish that. Yes, I realize you claim there were outside prosecutors involved and all that and I see your claims about 82 priests convicted of abuse.

Of those 82 priests convicted in Ireland (out of 1300 accused) how many of them were cases of pederasty? Do you have the stats on that? I doubt it.

Like I said, it’s very easy for you to pick out a news story to link to and act like the matter is settled. Looking into it will take time. You can’t expect to dump this kind of stuff on people and have an answer within two minutes.

I’ll get back to you on this when I’m ready.

[Falco Knotwise]

Okay, I’m reading from the Wikipedia page about the Irish Church scandals.

Very interesting stuff. First of all, there’s this …

the abuse in Ireland included cases of high-profile, supposedly celibate Catholic clerics involved in illicit heterosexual relations as well as widespread physical abuse of children in the Catholic-run childcare network.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_ ... in_Ireland

Notice, this says the cases INCLUDED “illicit heterosexual relations as well as widespread physical abuse of children.”

I notice two things. There’s nothing there about homosexual relations and while it talks about the physical abuse of “children”, it does not tell us anything about whether they were male or female, or what percentage.

Remember: they WANTED to make this about “child abuse” not about homosexuality.

Now, let’s get into some details about the abusers.

The first abuser listed is Michael Ledwith, vice president of a college of seminarians. The seminarians complained about improper sexual behavior towards them several times, yet he was protected.

Seminarians are male students and Michael Ledwith was a man.

Do you know what kind of man is attracted to young males over the the age of puberty and on into the twenties?

Pederasts.

So, the first man listed here Michel Ledwith was a homosexual pederast.

The next man listed was Brendan Smyth, convicted of abusing 143 children.

Brendan Smyth was a bisexual abuser.

Next listed is Sean Fortune who “was accused of the rape and sexual molestation of 29 different boys. He committed suicide while awaiting trial.”

Sean Fortune was another (accused) homosexual perderast.

The only three mentioned by name in the article were either homosexual pederasts or a bisexual who sought out both sexes to abuse.

None mentioned by name in this article were just heterosexual.

Now those aren’t official stats, but they are the only ones I get from that Wikipedia article.

Someone probably has official stats somewhere. That’s what I’m interested in here.

Not because one kind of abuse is worse than another but so they can face up to what the real problem is, and people will stop giving false impressions of what is really going on.

At any rate, so far I see no justification for considering the Irish cases any different than the American cases.

[Falco Knotwise]

Sexual abuse allegations made against priests in 19 Catholic diocesan colleges throughout State.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/educ ... out-state/

[Falco Knotwise]

One of the few sites I found that listed statistics had this to say …

Before the 1990s Ireland was a sexual utopia for Catholic Priests, sexual promiscuity was very normal among the Irish Clerics. 82% of Irish Catholic Priests were and are practicing or secret homosexuals for most of their lives, 37% of Irish Clerics were and are sexual psychopaths or pedophiles in all groups. 15% Irish Clerics were and are heterosexual, over 96% of all Irish Catholic Priests engaged directly in sexual relationships, in one form or another. Many Irish Catholic Priests regularly indulged in sexual deviancy, and more shocking, most of the heterosexual Irish Catholic Priests who went on to have sex with girls or women, the girls and women then went on to England to have their abortions. The so called gay Irish Priests were very active members of Ireland's and Britain’s homosexual underground, peopled its bathhouses, saunas and homosexual bars and clubs, and known cursing grounds looking’ for multiple sexual partners in this thriving gay underworld of the 1960s, 70s and 1980’s and 90’s.

Unfortunately, all the links he provides at the bottom of the page as sources for those statistics (including the Ryan Report) are not working.

https://www.tuambabies.org/statistics.html

[Falco Knotwise]

Here’s a good one.

The Catholic bishops of Spain released a clerical sex abuse report at the beginning of the month, based on testimony from nearly a thousand abuse victims and revealing a staggering 728 predators, over 99 percent of whom were male. The report also revealed that nearly 82 percent of victims were male.

This statistic shouldn’t be shocking, as it is consistent with clerical sex abuse reports across the globe, demonstrating that the chief and even the root issue behind clerical sex abuse is homosexuality.

In 2004, the U.S. Catholic bishops commissioned a now-infamous report from the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, which reported that 81 percent of clerical sex abuse victims were male. In France, a landmark clerical sex abuse report released in 2021 reported that over 330,000 children were abused by priests and other diocesan employees and noting that 80 percent of victims were male. In Ireland, stories are emerging of widespread clerical sex abuse in all-boys schools. An as-yet-incomplete clerical abuse investigation in Portugal likewise found that the majority of victims were male and that the most common site of abuse was in seminaries.

https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/the- ... lic-church

Spain, America, France. Statistics all tell the same tale. Sexual abuse in the Catholic Church is predominantly homosexual. “Consistent across the globe.”

Official Irish stats are still hard to get, but I highly doubt they are any different than in the rest of the world.

Ken, I think your claims that abuse in the RCC is equally heterosexual and homosexual is bunk.

Another excellent article about this from Crisis Magazine, very recent:

Does this data show that all priests suffering same-sex attraction are abusers? Not in the least. And we must show great sympathy for anyone who struggles with these desires. But it shows that anyone with a persistent homosexual identity might consider a different vocation.

https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/it-w ... xual-abuse

[temporal1]

i think it was on MD ..
there were a few members active in church plants, with enthisiastic+optimistic experiences.
i loved reading about their experiences, in various geographical locations. so encouraging.

(usernames i recall, no order:) undershepherd, appleman, GaryK, RZehr

^^These are constructive+effective examples of church plants in the U.S., Canada, S.A.
Another is Honduras Keiser. There may be others, this forum is notable for understatement, much is done quietly, if not silently.
Others directly+actively help church plants/missions. Prison ministries. Domestic and foreign. Neto is a voice of experience.

No Rick Warrens on forum, to my knowledge.

“How to say Christianity, Mennonites, Anabaptists aren’t your bag” - - while claiming it.

This is what hillary (the plagiarizing Methodist preacher wannabe) and obama hold to:
“Christians are fine, as long as they conform to our politics.”

Zuckerberg mulled over offering FB church. Why wouldn’t he? Legalism expert. Efficiency guru. (from appearances)

imho, the Holy Spirit determines outcomes. In all matters, pray for blessings, guidance, protection of the Holy Spirit.

Yep, that's certainly how the Great Commission reads, isn't it?
And how Paul lived his life...

[Falco Knotwise]

My assessment: it’s certainly not a false claim, I just find it lacking insofar as not stressing the majority of abuse cases in priesthood involve homosexuality.


The Church seems willing to accommodate homosexuals in the priesthood even at the risk of ruining the lives of children/youth all over the world, because, you know, that’s what Jesus would do.

[Ken]

My assessment: it’s certainly not a false claim, I just find it lacking insofar as not stressing the majority of abuse cases in priesthood involve homosexuality.


The Church seems willing to accommodate homosexuals in the priesthood even at the risk of ruining the lives of children/youth all over the world, because, you know, that’s what Jesus would do.

I'm not quibbling with the notion that a majority of victims tend to be boys. Which is no doubt due to a variety of factors not the least of which is the celibacy requirement for priesthood which makes the priesthood less attractive for straight men and is less of a bar for gay men. If you are gay, a society exclusively composed of men is going to be more attractive. And you are giving up nothing by giving up women. That is simple reality and has nothing to do with liberalism.

In Ireland I was referring not just to sex abuse but the widespread general physical and emotional abuse of both boys and girls in orphanages and boarding schools which were often girls schools and orphanages run by nuns. Some of it had sexual elements, some didn't. The reports go into great detail about that.

In any event, none of that has anything to do with liberalism in the church. And it isn't "liberal" priests who are most implicated in abuse. Perpetrators and those who covered up for them ran across the liberal-conservative spectrum in the church. Just because one is gay, doesn't make one liberal. Especially when it comes to Catholicism.

[temporal1]

My assessment: it’s certainly not a false claim, I just find it lacking insofar as not stressing the majority of abuse cases in priesthood involve homosexuality.

The Church seems willing to accommodate homosexuals in the priesthood even at the risk of ruining the lives of children/youth all over the world, because, you know, that’s what Jesus would do.

The CC is worldwide, priest/bishop abuse has happened. Not soley homosexual, i think you’re correct, probably largely so.
In the 1990’s, there were reports of teen girls and even young married women, in sexual abuse by priests. COMMONLY, they were not believed, even by their own parents, who could not believe the priest who sat with them for Sunday dinner would do such.

i can’t imagine the pain of not being believed by one’s own loving parents.
Yet, i can easily remember when these levels of trust+respect were how people lived and believed! Tremendous trust.
For doctors, teachers, clergy. Trust and respect. Even in courts.

In underdeveloped countries, with rampant poverty, families would gladly trust their children to the “safety” of the priests.
Many could be trusted. A lot of good has been done. SIN harms everyone.

The patterns of SIN repeat where ever SIN lands. SIN is guilty. No matter RCC, Boy Scouts, Hans Mast.
It’s uncanny how the patterns of SIN repeat. The patterns work, so, they repeat.

SIN doesn’t give up, tho. Always looking for that new loophole, that new weak spot, etc.

(i imagine) much of the intra-clergy homosexuality was fairly tolerated. unspoken, forgiven, etc.
these could easily have their own underground networks, don’t ask don’t tell. boys will be boys. girls are innocuous.
over time, they’ve gained power.

[Falco Knotwise]

My assessment: it’s certainly not a false claim, I just find it lacking insofar as not stressing the majority of abuse cases in priesthood involve homosexuality.


The Church seems willing to accommodate homosexuals in the priesthood even at the risk of ruining the lives of children/youth all over the world, because, you know, that’s what Jesus would do.

If you are gay, a society exclusively composed of men is going to be more attractive. And you are giving up nothing by giving up women. That is simple reality and has nothing to do with liberalism.

That doesn’t matter. The rule of the Church has always been, and still is, anyone who identifies as gay or has strong inclinations towards that is not to be admitted to seminaries or religious orders. That’s the rule. It hasn’t changed. The Church simply continues to ignore it. They run the seminaries and are found among Cardinals, the most powerful prelates beneath the pope.

The velvet mafia within the Church is real.

In Ireland I was referring not just to sex abuse but the widespread general physical and emotional abuse of both boys and girls in orphanages and boarding schools which were often girls schools and orphanages run by nuns. Some of it had sexual elements, some didn't. The reports go into great detail about that.

And I maintain that whenever I look into claims like that I find it’s usually a false misrepresentation of the facts. And quite frankly I’m tired of you spreading misinformation and putting the onus on me to have to do the hard work to refute your stories.

I frankly have got better things to do with my life.

In any event, none of that has anything to do with liberalism in the church. And it isn't "liberal" priests who are most implicated in abuse. Perpetrators and those who covered up for them ran across the liberal-conservative spectrum in the church. Just because one is gay, doesn't make one liberal. Especially when it comes to Catholicism.

It’s all closely intertwined imo, but I haven’t got time for this.