Coronavirus Outbreak

[Soloist]

That chart misses a critical piece of information. Doses of each administered.
Otherwise it’s sensationalism and propaganda.

[RZehr]

That chart misses a critical piece of information. Doses of each administered.
Otherwise it’s sensationalism and propaganda.

I agree.

[Robert]

Most censored chart in Congressional history?

What kind of nonsense is that? He's a Senator and he's sharing it. Any Senator can introduce any information they want and submit it to the Congressional Record. Or say anything they want. Who is censoring anything?

I am not worried about that part. I am more concerned about the numbers.

HCQ and Ivermectin were basically banned. It had to be to justify the EUA. Other options had to be off the table for the EUA to be enacted. They lied and convinced everyone they were not acceptable therapeutics for Covid. They were and are. They are not cures, but we see that the vaccine is not a cure either, but has benefit in certain risk factors and age groups.

Many people did die before and after the vaccines were developed because of the lie that HCQ and Ivermectin were not beneficial for Covid. In many places that lie still persists. Both have documented antiviral properties. These were documented BEFORE Covid. The risk factors of HCQ and Ivermectin are quite low. Making them unavailable to the population was a bad, if not evil, action.

[Ken]

Most censored chart in Congressional history?

What kind of nonsense is that? He's a Senator and he's sharing it. Any Senator can introduce any information they want and submit it to the Congressional Record. Or say anything they want. Who is censoring anything?

I am not worried about that part. I am more concerned about the numbers.

HCQ and Ivermectin were basically banned. It had to be to justify the EUA. Other options had to be off the table for the EUA to be enacted. They lied and convinced everyone they were not acceptable therapeutics for Covid. They were and are. They are not cures, but we see that the vaccine is not a cure either, but has benefit in certain risk factors and age groups.

Many people did die before and after the vaccines were developed because of the lie that HCQ and Ivermectin were not beneficial for Covid. In many places that lie still persists. Both have documented antiviral properties. These were documented BEFORE Covid. The risk factors of HCQ and Ivermectin are quite low. Making them unavailable to the population was a bad, if not evil, action.

HCQ and Ivermectin were not banned in any way shape or form. The FDA simply did not approve them for COVID because there wasn't sufficient evidence for their efficacy in treating COVID and there still isn't. Even the manufacturer of Ivermectin chose not to submit it for testing and evaluation as a COVID therapy and specifically stated the following: https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statem ... -pandemic/

Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 for evidence of efficacy and safety. It is important to note that, to-date, our analysis has identified:

• No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies;
• No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;
• A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.

We do not believe that the data available support the safety and efficacy of ivermectin beyond the doses and populations indicated in the regulatory agency-approved prescribing information.

But that didn't prevent anyone from still using them if they wanted.

What happened is that most hospitals chose not to administer those drugs to COVID patients because it is the policy of most hospitals to only administer medicines prescribed by doctors with admitting privileges to said hospitals and doctors who prescribe medications have to follow professional standards of care when deciding which medicines to prescribe and administer. And neither HCL nor Ivermectin met those standards. There were some examples of quack doctors who tried to jump in and administer medications like Ivermectin in hospitals where they had no admitting privileges and they were denied. As was appropriate. You can't just walk in off the street and start practicing medicine inside a hospital when you do not have privileges to do so.

And it is entirely appropriate for hospitals to regulate and determine which medications they are going to administer. That is their actual job. And they are immensely liable for malpractice if they don't follow actual guidelines for administration of medications.

But you are still free to take whatever you want at home. You can follow Trump's advice and drink bleach if you want. No one is stopping you.

[Robert]

But you are still free to take whatever you want at home.

Pharmacies were not filling prescriptions and doctors were in fear of retaliation if they prescribed it. Many believed the lies being reported that they did not work and would not prescribe them. Social Media sites were told by the government to restrict any information about them.

We all remember. You can make it sound innocent and fine now, but we all remember it was not that way at all.

[temporal1]

^^Correct, Robert. i called local pharmacies, IVM was legal but pharmacies refused to fill or supply in any way.
Which reminds of haithabu, who abruptly went missing. He was helpful in this topic with IVM info.

Page 685:

Any word from/about haithabu?
his last post was October 2021.

I really wish we knew. Maybe its Canada posters? Wade? Who else?

some in Canada have left, i think mostly with explanation .. Wade has come+gone now+then, Hats Off let us know his fellowship was increasing internet restrictions, signtist comes+goes ..

but, as you pointed out months ago, haithabu was active for awhile, then disappeared. he was busy, different family members had the virus, but. ?? it makes me wonder if he became ill? how is it going? also, questions about Canada restricting him? changes in fellowship rules? it’s been silent. often, someone on forum will share a bit of info? ..

he isn’t a frequent poster. still. it’s not long now until a year with no word.

His profile states he’s a member of Missionary Church in Calgary.
Has no one heard anything? His last post was October 17, 2021.

He was describing different close family members who had been ill. Then, quiet.

[Ken]

But you are still free to take whatever you want at home.

Pharmacies were not filling prescriptions and doctors were in fear of retaliation if they prescribed it. Many believed the lies being reported that they did not work and would not prescribe them. Social Media sites were told by the government to restrict any information about them.

We all remember. You can make it sound innocent and fine now, but we all remember it was not that way at all.

We don't have to remember anything. We can look at the actual evidence. Research into the use of both Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine for COVID has continued to this day. And we are finally getting large-scale fully randomized double-blind studies on the efficacy of both. Guess what? The doubters were actually correct and those promoting those remedies were actually the ones lying. These are the two largest double-blind studies on both remedies and both have been published in the past year or so. They found ZERO benefit from Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine relative to a placebo. ZERO.

So doctors and hospitals were absolutely correct not to prescribe either therapy. Just like they were correct not to recommend patients drink bleach either.

You have to actually do double-blind studies to determine the efficacy of a therapy because the vast majority of people who catch COVID get better anyway. So anecdotal evidence or small-scale non-randomized studies are useless, or even less than useless because they imply a benefit that is not there.

From The Feb 2023 issue of JAMA



And from the July 2022 issue of Lancet

[Soloist]

We don't have to remember anything. We can look at the actual evidence. Research into the use of both Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine for COVID has continued to this day. And we are finally getting large-scale fully randomized double-blind studies on the efficacy of both. Guess what? The doubters were actually correct and those promoting those remedies were actually the ones lying. These are the two largest double-blind studies on both remedies and both have been published in the past year or so. They found ZERO benefit from Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine relative to a placebo. ZERO.

So doctors and hospitals were absolutely correct not to prescribe either therapy. Just like they were correct not to recommend patients drink bleach either.

You have to actually do double-blind studies to determine the efficacy of a therapy because the vast majority of people who catch COVID get better anyway. So anecdotal evidence or small-scale non-randomized studies are useless, or even less than useless because they imply a benefit that is not there.

Interesting so what you’re saying is that we have to actually do large scale studies to determine if it works or does not work. Yet it was decried as not working well before the studies were even started. I’m not saying that they work on Covid, but on a cellular level both do. The doctors that were decrying these treatments were not decrying based on large scale studies.
Just like the doctors saying we should do it, neither actually had factual evidence yet both sides insisted they were right. I think that you should be a little less hasty about saying the early statements and stances these places took were based on science. The science wasn’t done yet. In essence both sides were making a hypothesis. Perhaps now we see the fruit of that. And perhaps both sides continue to argue.

[RZehr]

So doctors and hospitals were absolutely correct not to prescribe either therapy. Just like they were correct not to recommend patients drink bleach either.

Maybe not just like bleach. Bleach would have been counterproductive, maybe fatal. Ivermectin would have at least dewormed folks, which was probably a benefit.

[ohio jones]

^^Correct, Robert. i called local pharmacies, IVM was legal but pharmacies refused to fill or supply in any way.
Which reminds of haithabu, who abruptly went missing. He was helpful in this topic with IVM info.

Has no one heard anything? His last post was October 17, 2021.

He was describing different close family members who had been ill. Then, quiet.

Having done some sleuthing, I regret to inform you that Haithabu was in a rather serious motorcycle accident.
In 2009.

This time, my research turned up an obituary.
of his father, in 2016