Major attack on Israel by Hamas

[MaxPC]

Mr. Murray is one of the few from the UK who understands the reality of this violence from Hamas.

I agree with Mr. Murray that Hamas is worse than the Nazi's in that they don't even have any shame for their atrocities against Jews. Hamas supporters gleefully and proudly showcased their immorality. If there are people in the Western world who don't understand this, then it is good that people like Mr. Murray try to help the world understand.

But Mr. Murray doesn't offer a good solution, and neither does Piers Morgan. And I'll go so far as to say that Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump and Ms. Haley and Ms. Ocasio-Cortez don't have a good solution either.

If I was going to look for solutions, I would want to visit a Raed Odeh (50), a Palestinian Arab barber in New Jersey.

I do not see that interview's purpose as asking for solutions. That was not the intent at all. The intent was to get a perspective of the current situation through the eyes of someone who is on the ground and dodging rockets and who has a background of covering battle situations (such as Mr. Murray's experience covering the Ukraine/Russia war).

With respect to Mr Odeh, he is living in New Jersey and being put on the spot by a journalist. Would he say otherwise to a national or international audience? I think not; even if he wholeheartedly believes his own words. I think it is important to consider that Mr Odeh would not wish to disturb his quasi peaceful existence thousands of miles away from the conflict zone of Israel/Gaza/Iran. He and his family live in the US to leave that behind and find peace for themselves.

[Robert]

Well, that explains it.

[JayP]

At the risk of ticking off a LOT of people, and on both sides, I can't imagine something more distant from traditional anabaptist thought than arguing over the Hamas/Israel conflict. I'm not suggesting anyone's particular views are wrong or unchristian. IT just seems that true non-resistance and non-conformity leave you much room to converse other than to pray for peace.

[Soloist]

At the risk of ticking off a LOT of people, and on both sides, I can't imagine something more distant from traditional anabaptist thought than arguing over the Hamas/Israel conflict. I'm not suggesting anyone's particular views are wrong or unchristian. IT just seems that true non-resistance and non-conformity leave you much room to converse other than to pray for peace.

I would agree but at the same time, Micheal Sattler was aware of the Turks and I expect he knew to a point what was going on.
I think the responses are about 75% on party lines with some outliers here.

[Josh]

At the risk of ticking off a LOT of people, and on both sides, I can't imagine something more distant from traditional anabaptist thought than arguing over the Hamas/Israel conflict. I'm not suggesting anyone's particular views are wrong or unchristian. IT just seems that true non-resistance and non-conformity leave you much room to converse other than to pray for peace.

The idea that choosing not to kill people means I must somehow not have an opinion on other people engaging in mass slaughter is a curious one.

For an analogy, I also think abortion is wrong and that we shouldn't kill babies. Would you expect me to remain mute about abortion, and that true non-resistance and non-conformity just means sitting dumbly by?

[Soloist]

At the risk of ticking off a LOT of people, and on both sides, I can't imagine something more distant from traditional anabaptist thought than arguing over the Hamas/Israel conflict. I'm not suggesting anyone's particular views are wrong or unchristian. IT just seems that true non-resistance and non-conformity leave you much room to converse other than to pray for peace.

The idea that choosing not to kill people means I must somehow not have an opinion on other people engaging in mass slaughter is a curious one.

For an analogy, I also think abortion is wrong and that we shouldn't kill babies. Would you expect me to remain mute about abortion, and that true non-resistance and non-conformity just means sitting dumbly by?

I don’t know that he meant that, I suspect he is referring more to taking sides. He could clarify though.

[Josh]

I don’t know that he meant that, I suspect he is referring more to taking sides. He could clarify though.

Ah. I could agree with that, particularly what I see emerging in less-conservative conservative Mennonite circles where supposed nonresistant Anabaptists take a hardline far-right stance that Israel should invade Gaza and attack Hamas, the U.S. should attack Hamas, excusing children and babies dying as "collaterial damage" (repeating the lie they all die because they are being used as human shields), and so on.

Of course, my paragraph above has a high chance of being twisted to claim that I am somehow supporting Hamas. I do not support Hamas. I simply don't support killing tens of thousands of children and babies. I don't support bombing mosques, Orthodox churches, Catholic churches, and Protestant churches. I don't support bombing ambulances. I don't support bombing hospitals. I would think that all nonresistant Anabaptists could be united on what I just said.

[Bootstrap]

At the risk of ticking off a LOT of people, and on both sides, I can't imagine something more distant from traditional anabaptist thought than arguing over the Hamas/Israel conflict. I'm not suggesting anyone's particular views are wrong or unchristian. It just seems that true non-resistance and non-conformity leave you much room to converse other than to pray for peace.

I agree with you. Especially this: I don't think we should justify killing by either side.

I think we should pray for the victims, pray for peace, and look for ways to help victims. I do think it's OK to discuss just how badly traumatized these victims are, on both sides, and how big the need is.

[Bootstrap]

I don’t know that he meant that, I suspect he is referring more to taking sides. He could clarify though.

Ah. I could agree with that, particularly what I see emerging in less-conservative conservative Mennonite circles where supposed nonresistant Anabaptists take a hardline far-right stance that Israel should invade Gaza and attack Hamas, the U.S. should attack Hamas, excusing children and babies dying as "collaterial damage" (repeating the lie they all die because they are being used as human shields), and so on.

Of course, my paragraph above has a high chance of being twisted to claim that I am somehow supporting Hamas. I do not support Hamas. I simply don't support killing tens of thousands of children and babies. I don't support bombing mosques, Orthodox churches, Catholic churches, and Protestant churches. I don't support bombing ambulances. I don't support bombing hospitals. I would think that all nonresistant Anabaptists could be united on what I just said.

Right.

The victims of Hamas and the victims of Israel are both victims. Few of the people dying on either side are combatants.

[Josh]

I've made a lot of noise on MN about the dangers of political liberalism and progressivism, but on this particular issue, I see the most guilty party as the evangelical right-wing, solidly Republican, who seems to be adopting a very bloodthirsty mindset towards Palestinians which I feel is at odds with the teachings of Jesus.

I simply do not see anywhere in scripture that New Testament believers can somehow support advocating that their country's military fly to the other side of the globe and start engaging in an effort that kills women, children, and babies and then blaming those deaths on "human shields" or "collateral damage". There is no reason for America and Americans to be involved at all in this conflict. Zip. Nada. None. We are not being threatened or invaded by Hamas. There haven't been any credible threats of such. Israel is a wealthy nation with plenty of access to arms and is capable of defeating Hamas, and they have many more allies which are more local and more relevant.

So, once again I call into question why this is currently a preoccupation of the Christian right wing. Taking a look at my email inbox to see "prayer request" forwards... the majority of them are about prayer for "Israel" including prayer they will be victorious in battle. The rest are about abortion including asking for a miracle where anti-abortion measures have been defeated at the ballot box or in the courts.

I sense a certain irony in being against abortion yet turning a blind eye when children and babies are excused as "human shields" or "collateral damage".

Finally, this is the reality of the government policies that Israel plans to impose on Gaza, yet the right wing and the evangelical American body politic supports this anyway.



That's an official statement from Israel's official government.

The first ever pride flag raised in Gaza

Yoav Atzmoni who is a member of the LGBTQ+ community wanted to send a message of hope to the people of Gaza living under Hamas brutality.

His intention was to raise the first pride flag in Gaza as a call for peace and freedom.

There is something I cannot put into words about a flag celebrating homosexuality, which goes against the teachings of both Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, with the words "in the name of love" emblazoned on it with destroyed buildings from bombing campaigns in the background.

Love, indeed.