Major attack on Israel by Hamas

[Josh]

The Rafah crossing is run by the Israeli government and they frequently require vehicles to divert to a nearby checkpoint, wait, get inspected, and then go back. The crossing can take hours. (Israel does have legitimate security concerns to make sure weapons, bombs, etc. aren’t being smuggled in.) Egypt does too, and cooperates with Israel on these crossing procedures.

I think it’s fair to say the crossing is in the control of a first world country.

[Robert]

[MaxPC]

Absolutely well said; watch it to the end when Piers finally shuts it and lets David K Murray finish his thought. Mr. Murray is one of the few from the UK who understands the reality of this violence from Hamas.

[Josh]

… the reality is that Hamas is weak and (according to Israeli policy) this is entirely an internal affair inside Israel’s own borders.

Hamas is not a relevant threat to the UK, or America, or honestly much of anyone else except maybe Egypt.

Now, a lot of extreme right wing fanatics in the UK like Tommy Robinson are engaging in violent street protests against pro Palestinian demonstrators. We need to be united in categorically condemning this violence.

[Grace]

Since taking office Biden has relaxed sanctions on Iran, enabling them to sell $1 billion of oil every week to China. He’s released some $60 billion of previous funds as well. So this President has actually empowered Iran to fund this horrible brutality.

Furtherance of the Biden legacy of death. Emboldened Putin and empowered Iran/Hamas.

https://thehill.com/opinion/congress-bl ... ust-shift/
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/09/13 ... s-on-iran/
https://nypost.com/2023/10/09/terror-at ... evil-iran/

[Robert]

… the reality is that Hamas is weak and (according to Israeli policy) this is entirely an internal affair inside Israel’s own borders.

Hamas is not a relevant threat to the UK, or America, or honestly much of anyone else except maybe Egypt.

It is because of all the propaganda driven protests that are getting more and more violent in the US and UK.

[RZehr]

Ken, Israel is a first world country and controls all borders and customs before anyone can get to Gaza. I would be confident they would enforce normal weight restrictions on their roads, and suspect they would be even more vigilant about enforcement on shipments destined for Gaza.

"We want to live for Israel; that is our goal," said 24-year-old Yosef Strain from Montanna, his voice carrying a subtle twang.[/auote]

I have met my share of Yosefs, but have yet to run into one with a subtle “twanf”. Then again, I’ve never met someone from “Montanna”.

I don’t know him, never met him. But Yosef has visited a certain Mennonite church. There is “one degree of separation” between him and I. At least that is what I am told.

[Ken]

… the reality is that Hamas is weak and (according to Israeli policy) this is entirely an internal affair inside Israel’s own borders.

Hamas is not a relevant threat to the UK, or America, or honestly much of anyone else except maybe Egypt.

Now, a lot of extreme right wing fanatics in the UK like Tommy Robinson are engaging in violent street protests against pro Palestinian demonstrators. We need to be united in categorically condemning this violence.

I don't know about "weak" or just an internal problem not relevant beyond the borders of Israel.

Hamas is simply the latest iteration of armed Palestinian opposition to Israel. And armed Palestinian nationalism has been an enormous and toxic force across the middle east for decades.

• During the early 1970s the PLO fomented revolution, coups, and anarchy within Jordan until the Jordanians finally expelled them to Lebanon. And the PLO also conducted terrorist operations outside their territory, hijacking airplanes, killing athletes at the Olympics, etc.
• During the 1980s after being exiled to Lebanon the PLO was the catalyst that launched the Lebanese Civil War which plunged that formerly diverse country into a brutal civil war and lead to the rise of Hezbollah which itself has conducted terrorist operations around the world. Hundreds of thousands died as a result.
• During the early 2000s, Hamas was instrumental in torpedoing the Oslo accords and attempts at resolving the conflict with a 2-state solution. It wasn't just Hamas of course, conservative Jewish parties sought the same end. But Hamas was instrumental in killing Oslo.
• And now today, Hamas has virtually single-handedly destroyed the efforts towards normalization between Israel and other Gulf States like Saudi Arabia that were started during the Trump Administration. Which were really part of a larger effort to mobilize a coalition against Iran. Those efforts are probably set back at least a decade due to the actions of Hamas. No doubt with the assistance and encouragement of Iran.

So while it might be true that Hamas is far weaker than Israel in conventional military terms. It is also true that they punch FAR above their own weight when it comes to influencing the course of politics in the entire region, especially as an Iranian proxy. And that makes them a very serious and legitimate concern for the US and the rest of the world, not just Israel.

Of course we are only in this position due to the utter failure of the Israeli government which, through an astonishingly degree of incompetence, allowed Hamas to succeed beyond their wildest expectations on 10/7 instead of stopping them cold at the border. So honestly, the fact that the entire region is now blowing up is as much on Israel as Hamas at this point. Israeli failures and incompetence put us into the situation we are now in.

[Josh]

Right. The Israelis should be able to completely contain Hamas. They aren’t anywhere near as powerful as the PLO and in particular they aren’t in the West Bank.

They are definitely not an imminent threat to Americans or Brits, despite far-right agitators like Tommy Robinson claiming an invasion of Hamas is about to happen.

[Ken]

Right. The Israelis should be able to completely contain Hamas. They aren’t anywhere near as powerful as the PLO and in particular they aren’t in the West Bank.

They are definitely not an imminent threat to Americans or Brits, despite far-right agitators like Tommy Robinson claiming an invasion of Hamas is about to happen.

My point was that Hamas is a disruptive POLITICAL threat to the stability of the middle east. Not all geopolitical threats take the form of conventional military power.

And in that context they are an enormous concern to every country in the region as well as the US and Europe.

For example, unrest in that region has produced enormous waves of refugees flooding into Europe. And has destabilized countries like France. So yes, what Hamas does is of concern to countries beyond the borders of Israel.