Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
Szdfan

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Szdfan »

Robert wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 8:50 pm I think I see a difference in the way IDF is treating children and the way Hamas treated children.
I guess it doesn't count when children are killed by missle strikes?

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-mid ... t-67324897
Gaza is "fast becoming a graveyard for children", the secretary-general of the United Nations (UN) has warned.

Speaking on Monday, António Guterres warned that the situation in the enclave "more than a humanitarian crisis, it is a crisis of humanity".

"Hundreds of girls and boys are reportedly being killed or injured every day," Guterres told a news conference, on the eve of the first full month since Hamas launched its attack on Israel, and the Israeli military responded with retaliatory strikes.
As the fighting enters its fifth week, it shows no sign of easing, with the latest figures from Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry suggesting 10,022 people have now been killed in the enclave - including 4,104 children - since Israel's campaign began.
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Soloist

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Soloist »

Szdfan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 6:58 am I guess it doesn't count when children are killed by missle strikes?
Can you name a war where children didn’t pay with their own lives?

Tragic yes, but unfortunately expected
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Josh

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Josh »

Soloist wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:53 am
Szdfan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 6:58 am I guess it doesn't count when children are killed by missle strikes?
Can you name a war where children didn’t pay with their own lives?
None. But it is notable when certain people and groups only want to talk about dead children on one side of a conflict.
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Soloist

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Soloist »

Josh wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:54 am
Soloist wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:53 am
Szdfan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 6:58 am I guess it doesn't count when children are killed by missle strikes?
Can you name a war where children didn’t pay with their own lives?
None. But it is notable when certain people and groups only want to talk about dead children on one side of a conflict.
The war started killing one side and their civilians. Now it is the other way around. Regardless, if governments operate on a revenge model, there should be no expectation of a resolution resulting in safety without genocide.
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Josh

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Josh »

Soloist wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:57 am
Josh wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:54 am
Soloist wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:53 am

Can you name a war where children didn’t pay with their own lives?
None. But it is notable when certain people and groups only want to talk about dead children on one side of a conflict.
The war started killing one side and their civilians. Now it is the other way around. Regardless, if governments operate on a revenge model, there should be no expectation of a resolution resulting in safety without genocide.
Well said and that’s the exact situation with ethnic conflicts around the globe like we find with Kurds, Armenians, Azeris, and so forth. At some point, both sides simply have to choose to stop trying to kill each other.
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Szdfan

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Szdfan »

Soloist wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:53 am
Szdfan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 6:58 am I guess it doesn't count when children are killed by missle strikes?
Can you name a war where children didn’t pay with their own lives?

Tragic yes, but unfortunately expected
Absolutely, but I find Robert's praises of how the IDF treats Palestinian children while simultaneously bombing them to be odd.
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Ken
Posts: 21863
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Ken »

Szdfan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:50 am
Soloist wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:53 am
Szdfan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 6:58 am I guess it doesn't count when children are killed by missle strikes?
Can you name a war where children didn’t pay with their own lives?

Tragic yes, but unfortunately expected
Absolutely, but I find Robert's praises of how the IDF treats Palestinian children while simultaneously bombing them to be odd.
Robert showed us an 11 year old video from the West Bank. And in that case the 11 year old child involved was jailed by Israel for 8 months. I'm not sure how it is relevant to what the Israeli army is doing today in Gaza.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Szdfan

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Szdfan »

Ken wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:27 am
Szdfan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:50 am
Soloist wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:53 am

Can you name a war where children didn’t pay with their own lives?

Tragic yes, but unfortunately expected
Absolutely, but I find Robert's praises of how the IDF treats Palestinian children while simultaneously bombing them to be odd.
Robert showed us an 11 year old video from the West Bank. And in that case the 11 year old child involved was jailed by Israel for 8 months. I'm not sure how it is relevant to what the Israeli army is doing today in Gaza.
The question of morality in war is a difficult one, but it's not a great look when someone tries to argue that one side is inherently more moral than the other in the way it kills people.
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Nomad
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2023 2:56 pm
Affiliation: Alien

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Nomad »

Szdfan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 6:58 am
Robert wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 8:50 pm I think I see a difference in the way IDF is treating children and the way Hamas treated children.
I guess it doesn't count when children are killed by missle strikes?

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-mid ... t-67324897
Gaza is "fast becoming a graveyard for children", the secretary-general of the United Nations (UN) has warned.

Speaking on Monday, António Guterres warned that the situation in the enclave "more than a humanitarian crisis, it is a crisis of humanity".

"Hundreds of girls and boys are reportedly being killed or injured every day," Guterres told a news conference, on the eve of the first full month since Hamas launched its attack on Israel, and the Israeli military responded with retaliatory strikes.
As the fighting enters its fifth week, it shows no sign of easing, with the latest figures from Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry suggesting 10,022 people have now been killed in the enclave - including 4,104 children - since Israel's campaign began.
What I got from this video is the obvious fact that Palestinian Arab children who antagonize Israeli soldiers are commonly left unsupervised by their parents. They are also being trained to hate the Israeli soldiers/ people in their upbringing as well, otherwise they wouldn't be yelling angrily and throwing rocks at them. This was a 11yr old hitting and yelling while trying to incite violence and daring soldiers to respond back in violence so she could be painted as a brave victim. Here is the root of the problem...poor parenting on the Arab (not ALL Arabs of course...) part coupled with hatred for the Jews. A 2-state solution is impossible until the Palestinian Arabs can stop letting there children do things like this. The only thing that will come of 2 states is yet another Arab nation wanting to annihilate Israel unless they stop teaching their children that its ok to act this way. It is rare by the way, though I'm not saying never, that you would see Jewish children treating Palestinian Arabs in the way we see in this video. If a child goes up and begins to yell and hit a officer or military personnel in the US, likely they would be arrested as well...as they should be.

Further, if I with my Christian values, were a Israeli commander who was in charge of greenlighting bombings on Gaza. Then I would never bomb them because I believe in Jesus teaching to love our enemies. So I dont agree with bombing children. But its obvious to me where the main issue lies: its hatred being taught to next generations of Arabs that are causing the primary issue.
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Ken
Posts: 21863
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Ken »

Nomad wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 12:15 pm
Szdfan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 6:58 am
Robert wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 8:50 pm I think I see a difference in the way IDF is treating children and the way Hamas treated children.
I guess it doesn't count when children are killed by missle strikes?

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-mid ... t-67324897
Gaza is "fast becoming a graveyard for children", the secretary-general of the United Nations (UN) has warned.

Speaking on Monday, António Guterres warned that the situation in the enclave "more than a humanitarian crisis, it is a crisis of humanity".

"Hundreds of girls and boys are reportedly being killed or injured every day," Guterres told a news conference, on the eve of the first full month since Hamas launched its attack on Israel, and the Israeli military responded with retaliatory strikes.
As the fighting enters its fifth week, it shows no sign of easing, with the latest figures from Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry suggesting 10,022 people have now been killed in the enclave - including 4,104 children - since Israel's campaign began.
What I got from this video is the obvious fact that Palestinian Arab children who antagonize Israeli soldiers are commonly left unsupervised by their parents. They are also being trained to hate the Israeli soldiers/ people in their upbringing as well, otherwise they wouldn't be yelling angrily and throwing rocks at them. This was a 11yr old hitting and yelling while trying to incite violence and daring soldiers to respond back in violence so she could be painted as a brave victim. Here is the root of the problem...poor parenting on the Arab (not ALL Arabs of course...) part coupled with hatred for the Jews. A 2-state solution is impossible until the Palestinian Arabs can stop letting there children do things like this. The only thing that will come of 2 states is yet another Arab nation wanting to annihilate Israel unless they stop teaching their children that its ok to act this way. It is rare by the way, though I'm not saying never, that you would see Jewish children treating Palestinian Arabs in the way we see in this video. If a child goes up and begins to yell and hit a officer or military personnel in the US, likely they would be arrested as well...as they should be.

Further, if I with my Christian values, were a Israeli commander who was in charge of greenlighting bombings on Gaza. Then I would never bomb them because I believe in Jesus teaching to love our enemies. So I dont agree with bombing children. But its obvious to me where the main issue lies: its hatred being taught to next generations of Arabs that are causing the primary issue.
The girl in question is now famous enough to have her own Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahed_Tamimi and that fact alone suggests this is was an unusual incident and not normally how Arab children and Israeli soldiers interact on a daily basis. According to the profile, her home was slated for destruction to make room for the expansion of Jewish settlements and her village had been raided by Israeli troops over 150 times. And as a child she was also sentenced by an Israeli court to 8 months in prison for this interaction. So one might rationally conclude that it is actually Israel and the Israeli army that is teaching her and other Palestinian children to hate Israel.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
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