Major attack on Israel by Hamas

[ken_sylvania]

It's not incumbent on Israel to have a long-term peace project at hand before they begin attempting to rid Gaza of Hamas. Did the U.S. have a "Path to Peace" before it declared war on Japan? Israel needs to take care of the existential threat that is Hamas. There will be plenty of time for a path to peace afterwards.

This is inaccurate.

The US had developed absolutely enormous and detailed occupation plans for both Germany and Japan long before the wars were culminated. Planning for these efforts began in in February 1942, just 3 months after Pearl Harbor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advisory_ ... ign_Policy

The US and Allies most definitely did not wait until the war was over to plan for the peace.

Somehow I was under the impression that the US declared war on Japan well before three months after Pearl Harbor.

[Ken]

It's not incumbent on Israel to have a long-term peace project at hand before they begin attempting to rid Gaza of Hamas. Did the U.S. have a "Path to Peace" before it declared war on Japan? Israel needs to take care of the existential threat that is Hamas. There will be plenty of time for a path to peace afterwards.

This is inaccurate.

The US had developed absolutely enormous and detailed occupation plans for both Germany and Japan long before the wars were culminated. Planning for these efforts began in in February 1942, just 3 months after Pearl Harbor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advisory_ ... ign_Policy

The US and Allies most definitely did not wait until the war was over to plan for the peace.

Somehow I was under the impression that the US declared war on Japan well before three months after Pearl Harbor.

Read what HondurasKeiser wrote:

He wrote: "Israel needs to take care of the existential threat that is Hamas. There will be plenty of time for a path to peace afterwards."

Which implies that planning for peace can be put off until the war is over. That is most definitely not what happened during WW2. The US didn't defeat Japan and Germany first and then plan for peace afterwards. The planning for postwar peace began almost as soon as the war started. Put another way, WW2 is a very bad analogy to how Israel seems to be conducting this war. Maybe they do have a plan but it certainly isn't discernable.

[RZehr]

This is inaccurate.

The US had developed absolutely enormous and detailed occupation plans for both Germany and Japan long before the wars were culminated. Planning for these efforts began in in February 1942, just 3 months after Pearl Harbor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advisory_ ... ign_Policy

The US and Allies most definitely did not wait until the war was over to plan for the peace.

Somehow I was under the impression that the US declared war on Japan well before three months after Pearl Harbor.

Read what HondurasKeiser wrote:

He wrote: "Israel needs to take care of the existential threat that is Hamas. There will be plenty of time for a path to peace afterwards."

Which implies that planning for peace can be put off until the war is over. That is most definitely not what happened during WW2. The US didn't defeat Japan and Germany first and then plan for peace afterwards. The planning for postwar peace began almost as soon as the war started. Put another way, WW2 is a very bad analogy to how Israel seems to be conducting this war. Maybe they do have a plan but it certainly isn't discernable.

We are reading what HK wrote.

HK wrote:Did the U.S. have a "Path to Peace" before it declared war on Japan?

And the correct answer to that seems to be “No”. And then 3 months later they started planning. But 3 months later, is not “Before” war was declared on Japan.

[Robert]

Israel hasn't been allowing it.

Egypt has closed the border to Gaza. Israel has nothing to do with that.

[Ken]

We are reading what HK wrote.

HK wrote:Did the U.S. have a "Path to Peace" before it declared war on Japan?

And the correct answer to that seems to be “No”. And then 3 months later they started planning. But 3 months later, is not “Before” war was declared on Japan.

WW2 and Japan is exactly the wrong analogy to what Israel is doing today. The US and it allies probably did more post-war planning for peace during WW2 than happened in any other war in all of history. And that planning process began almost as soon as the war started for the US. Certainly before the US launched the first land offensives against Japanese forces which began with the Guadalcanal campaign in August 1942.

By contrast, Israel is engaging in a orgy of destruction with seemingly no plan at all for post-war peace. It isn't just me saying it. US officials are saying it as well. For example (emphasis mine): https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... as/675856/

Israel has launched what appears to be the first phase of a massive ground incursion into Gaza, vowing that Hamas must be eliminated or somehow rendered irrelevant, even at the expense of smashing Gaza to pieces.

But what then? Israeli officials have reportedly told the Biden administration that they haven’t engaged in any serious postconflict planning. That’s probably because none of their options is good and, despite a plethora of fantastical proposals, nobody is going to step in to bear the burden of Israel’s impossible dilemma or, put more simply, clean up its mess.

Israelis may feel that it doesn’t have any responsibility for realities in Gaza, given that Hamas has controlled the territory since 2007. But the rest of the world understands that the occupation has continued, albeit from beyond the borders of the Strip. Israel has all the while kept tight control over Gaza’s coastal waters, its airspace, its airwaves, and all of the crossings into the Strip except for a small one maintained by Egypt. Israel has made almost all of the major decisions regarding Gaza since 1967—including the reckless and self-destructive decision to bolster Hamas in order to split the Palestinian national movement between Islamists based in Gaza and secular nationalists in the West Bank.

Now Israel, apparently regretting this policy after the horrendous Hamas-led killing spree on October 7, has embarked on an offensive that will almost inevitably leave much of Gaza a smoldering pit of devastation. Yet, apparently, it still hopes to then withdraw, passing local authority to … somebody else. But this scenario is a fantasy. No third party is plausibly willing or able to police and rebuild Gaza on behalf of, and in coordination with, Israel.

[ohio jones]

We are reading what HK wrote.

HK wrote:Did the U.S. have a "Path to Peace" before it declared war on Japan?

And the correct answer to that seems to be “No”. And then 3 months later they started planning. But 3 months later, is not “Before” war was declared on Japan.

WW2 and Japan is exactly the wrong analogy to what Israel is doing today. The US and it allies probably did more post-war planning for peace during WW2 than happened in any other war in all of history. And that planning process began almost as soon as the war started for the US. Certainly before the US launched the first land offensives against Japanese forces which began with the Guadalcanal campaign in August 1942.

And that was ... (checks notes) ... 9 months after Pearl Harbor. It has been less than one month since the Hamas invasion. If Israel hasn't started planning for post-war peace by next summer, then perhaps a bit of outrage can be entertained.

Has Ukraine done any post-war peace planning? Has Russia?

[Ken]

We are reading what HK wrote.

And the correct answer to that seems to be “No”. And then 3 months later they started planning. But 3 months later, is not “Before” war was declared on Japan.

WW2 and Japan is exactly the wrong analogy to what Israel is doing today. The US and it allies probably did more post-war planning for peace during WW2 than happened in any other war in all of history. And that planning process began almost as soon as the war started for the US. Certainly before the US launched the first land offensives against Japanese forces which began with the Guadalcanal campaign in August 1942.

And that was ... (checks notes) ... 9 months after Pearl Harbor. It has been less than one month since the Hamas invasion. If Israel hasn't started planning for post-war peace by next summer, then perhaps a bit of outrage can be entertained.

Has Ukraine done any post-war peace planning? Has Russia?

The point is that the US did not launch offensive operations against Japan until they actually had a clear plan for victory and what that victory was going to to look like. One of the reasons it took the US and its allies 9 months after Pearl Harbor to actually launch ground operations against Japanese forces is because they were meticulous in their planning. And they had an overall strategy for both the course of the war and the peace afterwards.

As for your other questions.

Yes, Ukraine has, in fact, done post-war peace planning. After defeating Russia they plan to join the EU and join NATO so that they essentially become like their next door neighbor Poland where they can live in peace without future threat of invasion from Russia. They have made it abundantly clear that this is their plan.

Russia, on the other hand, has seemed to have done absolutely NO post-war planning. Well, they did have some half-baked genocidal occupation plans for the dismemberment and occupation of Kyiv and installation of a pro-Russian puppet regime such as they have in Belarus. Along with plans for what would actually have been genocide against Ukrainian nationalists. But those plans have gone out the window when they didn't occupy Kyiv and win the war in 72 hours like they had planned. Now? They are basically stuck with no good options because even if they reached some sort of cease fire, it isn't going to resolve the issue of western sanctions that have hugely curtailed their economic options in the west. Sanctions are hard to unwind and Russia will have to come to a peace agreement that is acceptable to Ukraine before most western allies of Ukraine will consider unwinding their enormous spiderweb of sanctions. That isn't going to be easy if Russia plans to continue occupying any part of Ukraine.

Russia is actually in a similar position to Israel in that they have immense military power to destroy things, but little ability to mold a future peace in a direction that will be to their benefit. Which suggests that both the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the Israeli invasion of Gaza are folly.

[Valerie]

How can you plan for peace with a people whose stated their goal of wiping out your entire race? They have 0 interest in peace with the Jews. They want the Jews destroyed. Everywhere. Not just in Israel. And oh by the way, they feel same for America- research people disown or even kill their own children for converting to Christ. I think it would behoove us to understand what spiritual piwer is motivating this hatred. It's totally unrealistic to expect them to desire peace. Scripture and prophecy is abundantly clear on this. Of vmcourse this situation is paving the way for "The" AntiChrist who will deceive the world ad a peacemaker at first. The goal of Hamas with Israel will NEVER be peace.

It seems a lot of time is spent here speculating a situation that no one here will really "figure out" or have an answer for but to accept God is Sovereign. Perhaps spend time readying ourselves for what we will be facing in our own country when the sleeper cells wake up.

[ken_sylvania]

WW2 and Japan is exactly the wrong analogy to what Israel is doing today. The US and it allies probably did more post-war planning for peace during WW2 than happened in any other war in all of history. And that planning process began almost as soon as the war started for the US. Certainly before the US launched the first land offensives against Japanese forces which began with the Guadalcanal campaign in August 1942.

And that was ... (checks notes) ... 9 months after Pearl Harbor. It has been less than one month since the Hamas invasion. If Israel hasn't started planning for post-war peace by next summer, then perhaps a bit of outrage can be entertained.

Has Ukraine done any post-war peace planning? Has Russia?

The point is that the US did not launch offensive operations against Japan until they actually had a clear plan for victory and what that victory was going to to look like. One of the reasons it took the US and its allies 9 months after Pearl Harbor to actually launch ground operations against Japanese forces is because they were meticulous in their planning. And they had an overall strategy for both the course of the war and the peace afterwards.

Talk about being incorrect....
or maybe I should just say that the progress and direction of the war did not follow the plan.

Did this plan include the killing over 100,000 Japanese civilians in a single night? Did the overall strategy for the course of the war include just simply firebombing Japanese cities with no military objective other than to terrorize the population and break their will to resist?

[Soloist]

Plans rarely survive combat.

The plans really were loose guidelines not really well laid plans.
I know there was detailed plans for invading Japan but they were with incalculable loss of life and the choice to nuke them was made much later in the war. The choices of what to do with them after the war wasn’t made until it was made. Many plans were made, it’s easy to say it was made “early” but the choice of which plan wasn’t actually chosen until Japan surrendered. We didn’t know how many nukes it was going to take and huge bombing campaigns were planned.