White Privilege?

[mike]

Hypothetical question. What do you think would happen if a group of Somali refugee farmers or a group of Guatemala refugee farmers sought to buy farmland in say the Kishacoquillas Valley of PA (Belleville area) which is heavily Mennonite and Amish? Having spent a lot of time there my guess is that locals would rally to prevent that from happening and exert a lot of social pressure on landowners to make sure such lands stayed in Amish and Mennonite hands.

That is the sort of thing I'm talking about.

Unfortunately, the above scenario that Ken details is way too common.

I don't know if that is racism so much as simple economic protectionist instincts. Just yesterday a farmer was complaining to me about the Amish that are moving into our area and driving up farm prices. He didn't mention the fact that he moved into the area himself and bought up a farm and land a decade ago.

[steve-in-kville]

Hypothetical question. What do you think would happen if a group of Somali refugee farmers or a group of Guatemala refugee farmers sought to buy farmland in say the Kishacoquillas Valley of PA (Belleville area) which is heavily Mennonite and Amish? Having spent a lot of time there my guess is that locals would rally to prevent that from happening and exert a lot of social pressure on landowners to make sure such lands stayed in Amish and Mennonite hands.

That is the sort of thing I'm talking about.

Unfortunately, the above scenario that Ken details is way too common.

I don't know if that is racism so much as simple economic protectionist instincts. Just yesterday a farmer was complaining to me about the Amish that are moving into our area and driving up farm prices. He didn't mention the fact that he moved into the area himself and bought up a farm and land a decade ago.

Good point.

[Josh]

Hypothetical question. What do you think would happen if a group of Somali refugee farmers or a group of Guatemala refugee farmers sought to buy farmland in say the Kishacoquillas Valley of PA (Belleville area) which is heavily Mennonite and Amish? Having spent a lot of time there my guess is that locals would rally to prevent that from happening and exert a lot of social pressure on landowners to make sure such lands stayed in Amish and Mennonite hands.

That is the sort of thing I'm talking about.

Not hypothetical - this kind of thing is happening all the time already, although they're often corporate buyers where it's hard to even know who they're representing. Could be Chinese, could be Saudis (who are buying up massive amounts of farmland so they can raise alfalfa and effectively ship water to Saudi Arabia to feed dairy cows, including farmland in parts of Arizona that is already very dry and dependent on irrigation).

The locals are not "rallying" to prevent that from happening - there's nothing that can be done. You can't "exert a lot of social pressure on landowners" at an auction, which is a common way that farmland is sold.

[Ken]

Unfortunately, the above scenario that Ken details is way too common.

I don't know if that is racism so much as simple economic protectionist instincts. Just yesterday a farmer was complaining to me about the Amish that are moving into our area and driving up farm prices. He didn't mention the fact that he moved into the area himself and bought up a farm and land a decade ago.

Good point.

People's motivations are complex and every situation is unique. But race certainly plays a factor and it certainly played a factor historically. Look at how many communities complain about immigrants moving in. You even here that sort of thing here on this forum. It is no more accurate to claim everything is about race as it is to claim that nothing is about race.

[Ken]

Hypothetical question. What do you think would happen if a group of Somali refugee farmers or a group of Guatemala refugee farmers sought to buy farmland in say the Kishacoquillas Valley of PA (Belleville area) which is heavily Mennonite and Amish? Having spent a lot of time there my guess is that locals would rally to prevent that from happening and exert a lot of social pressure on landowners to make sure such lands stayed in Amish and Mennonite hands.

That is the sort of thing I'm talking about.

Not hypothetical - this kind of thing is happening all the time already, although they're often corporate buyers where it's hard to even know who they're representing. Could be Chinese, could be Saudis (who are buying up massive amounts of farmland so they can raise alfalfa and effectively ship water to Saudi Arabia to feed dairy cows, including farmland in parts of Arizona that is already very dry and dependent on irrigation).

The locals are not "rallying" to prevent that from happening - there's nothing that can be done. You can't "exert a lot of social pressure on landowners" at an auction, which is a common way that farmland is sold.

In fact locals ARE rallying to oppose that very thing. And opportunistic politicians are jumping into the fray and promising to address it. Florida just imposed limits on Chinese ownership of land that is causing waves in that state. https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-judge- ... 023-08-17/ And we have presidential candidates promising to do the same. One of Vivek Ramaswamy's campaign promises is to prohibit Chinese entities from buying American land.

But my example wasn't about Arizona or Florida. It was about Mennonite farm communities in Pennsylvania. Where land transfers do not, in fact, generally happen through auction. Land is tightly held within families and there is, indeed, social pressure not to sell to "outsiders".

[mike]

I don't know if that is racism so much as simple economic protectionist instincts. Just yesterday a farmer was complaining to me about the Amish that are moving into our area and driving up farm prices. He didn't mention the fact that he moved into the area himself and bought up a farm and land a decade ago.

Good point.

People's motivations are complex and every situation is unique. But race certainly plays a factor and it certainly played a factor historically. Look at how many communities complain about immigrants moving in. You even here that sort of thing here on this forum. It is no more accurate to claim everything is about race as it is to claim that nothing is about race.

Well, true.

[ken_sylvania]

Hypothetical question. What do you think would happen if a group of Somali refugee farmers or a group of Guatemala refugee farmers sought to buy farmland in say the Kishacoquillas Valley of PA (Belleville area) which is heavily Mennonite and Amish? Having spent a lot of time there my guess is that locals would rally to prevent that from happening and exert a lot of social pressure on landowners to make sure such lands stayed in Amish and Mennonite hands.

That is the sort of thing I'm talking about.

Not hypothetical - this kind of thing is happening all the time already, although they're often corporate buyers where it's hard to even know who they're representing. Could be Chinese, could be Saudis (who are buying up massive amounts of farmland so they can raise alfalfa and effectively ship water to Saudi Arabia to feed dairy cows, including farmland in parts of Arizona that is already very dry and dependent on irrigation).

The locals are not "rallying" to prevent that from happening - there's nothing that can be done. You can't "exert a lot of social pressure on landowners" at an auction, which is a common way that farmland is sold.

In fact locals ARE rallying to oppose that very thing. And opportunistic politicians are jumping into the fray and promising to address it. Florida just imposed limits on Chinese ownership of land that is causing waves in that state. https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-judge- ... 023-08-17/ And we have presidential candidates promising to do the same. One of Vivek Ramaswamy's campaign promises is to prohibit Chinese entities from buying American land.

But my example wasn't about Arizona or Florida. It was about Mennonite farm communities in Pennsylvania. Where land transfers do not, in fact, generally happen through auction.

Right, usually they happen by private sale of some sort from father to son, or son-in-law. My guess is that some years after these Mennonites start having Somalien or Guatemalan sons they will start transferring farmland accordingly.

[Ken]

Not hypothetical - this kind of thing is happening all the time already, although they're often corporate buyers where it's hard to even know who they're representing. Could be Chinese, could be Saudis (who are buying up massive amounts of farmland so they can raise alfalfa and effectively ship water to Saudi Arabia to feed dairy cows, including farmland in parts of Arizona that is already very dry and dependent on irrigation).

The locals are not "rallying" to prevent that from happening - there's nothing that can be done. You can't "exert a lot of social pressure on landowners" at an auction, which is a common way that farmland is sold.

In fact locals ARE rallying to oppose that very thing. And opportunistic politicians are jumping into the fray and promising to address it. Florida just imposed limits on Chinese ownership of land that is causing waves in that state. https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-judge- ... 023-08-17/ And we have presidential candidates promising to do the same. One of Vivek Ramaswamy's campaign promises is to prohibit Chinese entities from buying American land.

But my example wasn't about Arizona or Florida. It was about Mennonite farm communities in Pennsylvania. Where land transfers do not, in fact, generally happen through auction.

Right, usually they happen by private sale of some sort from father to son, or son-in-law. My guess is that some years after these Mennonites start having Somalien or Guatemalan sons they will start transferring farmland accordingly.

My larger point is that it is one thing for a CHURCH to claim that they welcome outsiders. That is an easy claim to make.

It is another thing entirely for a COMMUNITY to actually welcome outsiders.

Those are two different things entirely. Even when the church and community are closely linked.

That is actually one of the things that I am proud about when it comes to the community in which I live. The other day I went through my class rosters of 145 students to to collect data on languages. The school registration data I have access to doesn't show immigration status. But they do collect information on the primary language spoken at home for each child. Out of the 145 students on my class rosters 64 (or 44%) have a primary language spoken at home other than English. This is the list:

Spanish 37
Ukranian 7
Russian 5
Vietnamese 4
Arabic 3
Cambodian 2
Lao 1
Tagalog 1
Turkish 1
Chuuk 1
Punjabi 1
Amharic 1

[Robert]

Out of the 145 students on my class rosters 64 (or 44%) have a primary language spoken at home other than English. This is the list:

Spanish 37
Ukranian 7
Russian 5
Vietnamese 4
Arabic 3
Cambodian 2
Lao 1
Tagalog 1
Turkish 1
Chuuk 1
Punjabi 1
Amharic 1

It is a benefit to be bilingual. These families have an advantage.

[Ken]

Out of the 145 students on my class rosters 64 (or 44%) have a primary language spoken at home other than English. This is the list:

Spanish 37
Ukranian 7
Russian 5
Vietnamese 4
Arabic 3
Cambodian 2
Lao 1
Tagalog 1
Turkish 1
Chuuk 1
Punjabi 1
Amharic 1

It is a benefit to be bilingual. These families have an advantage.

Yes of course. It should be. That is true.

However immigrants also face discrimination in this country as well. And one even sees such sentiments expressed here on this forum.