Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
mike

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by mike »

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 5:35 pm They are saying that killing over 7,000 people, including 2,665 children, is not a major operation?

I thought that killing 1,400 Jews was a major operation. Killing 7,000 Palestinians is not? Is this a war against Hamas or a war against Gaza?

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/10/27 ... oll-israel
The Hamas-run Health Ministry in Gaza has released a list of 6,747 people it said had been killed in Israel’s relentless bombardment of the Palestinian territory in retaliation for the Hamas-led raid on Oct. 7 that killed more than 1,400 people in Israel.
The list includes the name, age, gender and ID number of each person killed, including those of 2,665 children. The ministry said it did not name an additional 281 people who had been killed because their bodies could not be identified, bringing the total to 7,028.
The tweet was in reference to a ground action that is going on just now. I took it to mean that the current ground action is not the main event, which is probably still coming.

Do you believe those numbers? On Wednesday, President Biden said he does not trust the numbers from the Palestinians.
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Bootstrap

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Bootstrap »

mike wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 5:51 pm Do you believe those numbers? On Wednesday, President Biden said he does not trust the numbers from the Palestinians.
Yes, I actually think those numbers are the most accurate available estimate of Palestinian casualties in the fog of war. And those are apparently the numbers used in the State Department as the best estimate, according to a podcast I heard this morning, despite Biden's claim.

I suspect we will learn they are an undercount. After all, isn't that what we have seen in just about every other war?

Two articles that look at this:

Biden’s Own Officials Cite the Palestinian Death Counts He Cast Doubt On
President Joe Biden cast doubt this week on the Palestinian health ministry’s death count in Israel’s current genocidal campaign against Palestinians — but Biden’s own administration officials rely on those same death counts for their reports, and have even said in one instance that the ministry’s count may be too low.
In one instance, in an October 21 report, an official said that the Gaza ministry’s numbers may actually be an undercount of the death toll. “The numbers are likely much higher, according to the UN and NGOs reporting on the situation,” the official reportedly wrote.
See also:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/ ... eath-count
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mike

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by mike »

That may be true, I have no way of knowing.
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Nomad
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2023 2:56 pm
Affiliation: Alien

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Nomad »

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 5:35 pm They are saying that killing over 7,000 people, including 2,665 children, is not a major operation?

I thought that killing 1,400 Jews was a major operation. Killing 7,000 Palestinians is not? Is this a war against Hamas or a war against Gaza?

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/10/27 ... oll-israel
The Hamas-run Health Ministry in Gaza has released a list of 6,747 people it said had been killed in Israel’s relentless bombardment of the Palestinian territory in retaliation for the Hamas-led raid on Oct. 7 that killed more than 1,400 people in Israel.
The list includes the name, age, gender and ID number of each person killed, including those of 2,665 children. The ministry said it did not name an additional 281 people who had been killed because their bodies could not be identified, bringing the total to 7,028.
I fear this might be all to common in our new age of warfare. Urban combat is going to be the new way of fighting.

The men who are fighting on the defense will fire rockets from densely populated cities in order to create a public outcry against the ones on the offensive who retaliate. The one's on the offense will then chaulk it up to to collateral damage as the innocent are the ones left in the middle feeling the brunt of the damage from both sides. War is Godless and evil in every way...so sad.
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HondurasKeiser

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by HondurasKeiser »

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 6:17 pm
mike wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 5:51 pm Do you believe those numbers? On Wednesday, President Biden said he does not trust the numbers from the Palestinians.
Yes, I actually think those numbers are the most accurate available estimate of Palestinian casualties in the fog of war. And those are apparently the numbers used in the State Department as the best estimate, according to a podcast I heard this morning, despite Biden's claim.

I suspect we will learn they are an undercount. After all, isn't that what we have seen in just about every other war?

Two articles that look at this:

Biden’s Own Officials Cite the Palestinian Death Counts He Cast Doubt On
President Joe Biden cast doubt this week on the Palestinian health ministry’s death count in Israel’s current genocidal campaign against Palestinians — but Biden’s own administration officials rely on those same death counts for their reports, and have even said in one instance that the ministry’s count may be too low.
In one instance, in an October 21 report, an official said that the Gaza ministry’s numbers may actually be an undercount of the death toll. “The numbers are likely much higher, according to the UN and NGOs reporting on the situation,” the official reportedly wrote.
See also:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/ ... eath-count
It strikes me that Al Jazeera might be a touch biased.
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Josh

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Josh »

HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:18 pm It strikes me that Al Jazeera might be a touch biased.
Al Jazeera is run by Qatar's government which I would not describe as pro-Hamas.
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Josh

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Josh »

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 5:35 pm They are saying that killing over 7,000 people, including 2,665 children, is not a major operation?

I thought that killing 1,400 Jews was a major operation. Killing 7,000 Palestinians is not? Is this a war against Hamas or a war against Gaza?
Maybe it's a "Special Military Operation". You know, the kind of thing we're always promised will be over in 2 weeks.
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Nomad
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2023 2:56 pm
Affiliation: Alien

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Nomad »

Josh wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:45 pm
HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:18 pm It strikes me that Al Jazeera might be a touch biased.
Al Jazeera is run by Qatar's government which I would not describe as pro-Hamas.
Qatar is where the Hamas military office is established. This is a known fact.
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HondurasKeiser

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by HondurasKeiser »

Josh wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:45 pm
HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:18 pm It strikes me that Al Jazeera might be a touch biased.
Al Jazeera is run by Qatar's government which I would not describe as pro-Hamas.
Well then your description would be wrong.
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Ken
Posts: 21863
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Ken »

HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:28 pm
Josh wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:45 pm
HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:18 pm It strikes me that Al Jazeera might be a touch biased.
Al Jazeera is run by Qatar's government which I would not describe as pro-Hamas.
Well then your description would be wrong.
Both Al Jazeera and Hamas are tools that Qatar uses to punch above its weight in the middle east so so speak. That doesn't mean the interests of those to organizations necessarily align in any way. Both are simply tools that Qatar uses to make itself a power broker and influencer in the region.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
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