Cultural Separation from Parents

[ohio jones]

The heterosexual nuclear female is described as what God created in Genesis with the first people.

They power the family more efficiently than males, but sometimes meltdown.

[Soloist]

The heterosexual nuclear female is described as what God created in Genesis with the first people.

They power the family more efficiently than males, but sometimes meltdown.

You just have to channel it into tunamelts.

[ohio jones]

Proverbs 31:15 (slightly edited):

She also rises while it is yet night,
And provides food for her household,
By fission for tuna.

[Falco Knotwise]

Proverbs 31:15 (slightly edited):

She also rises while it is yet night,
And provides food for her household,
By fission for tuna.

"Grandparents are grand; great-aunts are great; and nuclear families are … nuclear?"

[MaxPC]

Proverbs 31:15 (slightly edited):

She also rises while it is yet night,
And provides food for her household,
By fission for tuna.

"Grandparents are grand; great-aunts are great; and nuclear families are … nuclear?"

Nuclear families are the nucleus of civilisation.

[Ken]

Changing one’s name to match the gender they feel inside, along with changing one’s pronouns is one of the first steps in “Transitioning”.

And?

A bunch of people here say this issue isn’t about names. Which is it? Teenagers experiment with all kinds of new identities when growing up. And names are pretty trivial. Pronouns even more trivial. Large numbers of students go by different names in class and with their friends. Schools shouldn’t be in the business of trying to discriminate between students based on whether or not a teacher approves of their reason for using a different name.

As I said above. Accommodations that go beyond those that are routinely accepted for all students (choice of nickname) should be dealt with like any other official school accommodation which would require parent sign off. So, for example, my daughter has mild asthma. We had to get a medical form signed by her doctor and a parent in order for her to carry an albuterol inhaler in her backpack at school. Any student who wants to use oppose sex bathrooms or PE classes or whatever should face at least the same level of scrutiny and approval (parent sign off and medical/psychologist sign off) and some sort of official meeting between parents and administrators to iron out specific boundaries and accommodations.

But if I have a Christine in class who wants to go by Chris? So what. Not my or the school’s concern what her motivation is if it doesn’t affect the class. Trying to micromanage that sort of thing just in case some trans kid might slip through the cracks is pointless hysteria.

Those are my opinions. And that is the way things are done where I teach. Students most definitely need official documented accommodations with parent meetings and sign-off if they want any sort of gender-based accommodations that go beyond the trivial like name used in class. Students are definitely not allowed to use opposite sex bathrooms just on their own say so. And even then they are directed to a private staff bathroom behind the office, not the general use student bathrooms. I’m not sure how they handle PE locker rooms, if that has even come up. Perhaps the same way, they may have them change in the coaches area. But again, this would be after meetings with parents, school psychologists, etc. and then as specified on officially agreed-to written accommodations and most certainly not on some student’s own say so.

You’re being deliberately obtuse, Ken. Plenty of people, myself included, have detailed that:
1. Changing of names and pronouns is categorically different from nicknames.
2. Teachers are hiding those changes from parents because they want to help the child explore or transition to a different gender.
3. Transition begins with names and often ends with chemical castration.
4. In certain states, yours included, parent permission for chemical castration is not necessary. California for example fancies itself a sanctuary state for youth from other states that want to chemically transition without parent permission.

I may be off, but it seems to me that you simply cannot conceive the idea that conservatives might actually be right once in a while on social issues.

Yes, you are far off. A teenager who is trying on a different name is no different from a teenage boy secretly trying on his mom or sister's clothes in 1950 or 1890. Or a girl in 1950 who hated wearing dresses. Teenagers have always explored their own sexuality and there have always been people who don't fit the mainstream norms. What is different today is that society, as a whole is, more accepting and less viciously disapproving. You don't risk getting imprisoned or locked into an asylum today when those were very possible consequences in the past. Yet society has not completely changed and there are some kids who still feel compelled to hide their identities from their parents. Less than in the past for sure, but still some.

And no, most teachers are not hiding things from parents but neither are they violating their student's privacy by reporting every detail of their lives back to parents. Because in this society we actually provide students with some degree of personal autonomy and privacy which increases the older they get. We are not a dystopic police state. Are there teachers who inappropriately bring their own ideologies into the classroom? Yes. That happens absolutely all the time and mostly on topics completely unrelated to gender. During COVID my daughter's band teacher tended to go off on diatribes against vaccines and masking and such during band class. Did I file a complaint? No. But he did lose my daughter's respect and the respect of half the class who disagreed with him. Many teachers bring their politics into class. She also had a literature teacher who would assign highly ideological but mediocre novels by Ayn Rand over more deserving choices from the American cannon. Back in Texas there were large percentages of public school teachers who would bring their evangelical Christianity into the classroom and evangelize to the students in their car in many ways large and small without the consent or knowledge of parents. Stealth evangelism in public schools is a real thing and many teachers do it without the knowledge or consent of parents.

And no, you have your facts wrong on the law as well. In my state medical interventions require parental permission. Nothing about that has changed. There has been a lot of hysterical reporting in right wing media about a bill that was actually about providing housing for homeless youth and that made no changes at all to existing requirements for parental consent to medical treatments, transgender or otherwise. Look up the actual law if you don't believe me.

[Ken]

The heterosexual nuclear female is described as what God created in Genesis with the first people. Everything else is a deviation from God’s design.

Heterosexual nuclear females!!!

[Falco Knotwise]

Proverbs 31:15 (slightly edited):

"Grandparents are grand; great-aunts are great; and nuclear families are … nuclear?"

Nuclear families are the nucleus of civilisation.

Yes, but people often think in terms of physics today which apparently can cause con-fusion.

The Bible starts with a conjugal family but then moves on to extended families and perhaps the modern tendency to reduce the family to an ideal nuclear family is part of a social atomization process.

God's first covenant is with Adam and Eve (the conjugal family.) Then it is with the extended family of Noah (his sons and his sons' wives also in the ark.) Later, a covenant is made with Abraham and his clan. After that, another covenant is made with the twelve tribes of Israel. Finally, through the seed of Abraham, the covenant is extended to the nations.

[Ken]

"Grandparents are grand; great-aunts are great; and nuclear families are … nuclear?"

Nuclear families are the nucleus of civilisation.

Yes, but people often think in terms of physics today which apparently can cause con-fusion.

The Bible seems to prefer extended families and the modern tendency to idealize the nuclear family is perhaps part of a social atomization process.

In point of fact, the nuclear family as it is defined today (one mother, one father, and children) is not remotely Old Testament Biblical. And most certainly is not some master plan laid out in Genesis as Josh asserts. How many wives did Abraham have? He is the patriarch of the Genesis story. How many did Jacob have? What about Esau? Those are central figures from Genesis. Exodus 21:10 lays out God's rules for polygamy and the taking of slave wives. Deuteronomy 21:15-17 lays out God's rules of inheritance for polygamist families. How many wives did Saul have? What about David? What about Solomon?

In fact, despite Josh's assertions to the contrary, I suspect examples of true nuclear families (composed only of one mother, one father, and minor children) are few and far between in the Old Testament. Old Testament culture (God's law if you will) was actually extremely patriarchal in archaic and brutal ways that we don't follow today. Not even the most conservative Christian sects do.

What the historical record actually tells us is that the monogamist nuclear family as we understand it today arose from pagan Roman culture not Hebrew culture. And it was the pagan Romans who imposed monogamy and nuclear families across the Roman Empire. Roman historians such as Josephus talk about the deeply rooted tradition of polygamy in Hebrew lands and how it took centuries for Roman law and rule to completely extinguish that custom. Indeed, Paul's writings (which include monogamy) represent to some extent the Hellenization of Jewish teachings for a wider non-Hebrew audience across the Roman world.

[Soloist]

The words of Jesus contain all the argument ever needed against you. Anything else is wasted words.

Matthew 19: 4-5 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?