Sattler College Turmoil

[joshuabgood]

One more word, in my view the issues were primarily due to governance problems.

I don't blame him, but in short Finny's power economically, positionally at Sattler. And spiritually, at FoTW, put in place some unhealthy power imbalances in those respective spheres because they all touched each other.

Combine that with a fervent, albeit thoughtful, some would say perhaps overly dogmatic views of FoTW on the things like baptism, women's roles, and communion etc...

And issues are bound to emerge.

[Ken]

One more word, in my view the issues were primarily due to governance problems.

I don't blame him, but in short Finny's power economically, positionally at Sattler. And spiritually, at FoTW, put in place some unhealthy power imbalances in those respective spheres because they all touched each other.

Combine that with a fervent, albeit thoughtful, some would say perhaps overly dogmatic views of FoTW on the things like baptism, women's roles, and communion etc...

And issues are bound to emerge.

Wealthy philanthropists have always founded colleges and universities.

Stanford University (Leyland Stanford)
Carnegie Mellon (Andrew Carnegie and Andrew Mellon)
Pepperdine University (George Pepperdine)

etc...

But they tended to write big checks and let professionals run the place rather than micromanage.

From my admittedly very distant observation point it looks like Finny is trying to simultaneously found both a denomination and a college and those two objectives are sometimes at cross-purposes. In fact, I think they are actually fundamentally in conflict.

[Josh]

One more word, in my view the issues were primarily due to governance problems.

I don't blame him, but in short Finny's power economically, positionally at Sattler. And spiritually, at FoTW, put in place some unhealthy power imbalances in those respective spheres because they all touched each other.

Combine that with a fervent, albeit thoughtful, some would say perhaps overly dogmatic views of FoTW on the things like baptism, women's roles, and communion etc...

And issues are bound to emerge.

Wealthy philanthropists have always founded colleges and universities.

Stanford University (Leyland Stanford)
Carnegie Mellon (Andrew Carnegie and Andrew Mellon)
Pepperdine University (George Pepperdine)

etc...

But they tended to write big checks and let professionals run the place rather than micromanage.

From my admittedly very distant observation point it looks like Finny is trying to simultaneously found both a denomination and a college and those two objectives are sometimes at cross-purposes. In fact, I think they are actually fundamentally in conflict.

The founder of Sattler took me and another brother downtown on one occasion just ahead of Sattler launching. He showed us the building where the Evangelical movement was birthed. He explained that he has studied movements and that every movement needs a church, a publishing arm, and an educational institution.

It would seem he is trying to found a movement, and then is trying to found (and operate and control) a denomination and a college in order to further that movement.

It would be great if there would be a lot more clarity on what these goals are. One primary issue at hand may be that many Mennonites are not interested in helping found yet another denomination.

[brothereicher]

Yes, I caught the attempt at clever sarcasm. My understanding is that a straw that broke the camel's back and caused the mass resignations was Dean Taylor wanted to start or supported starting a BMA-type church for BMA-type students. Finny opposed this strenuously enough that it wasn't viable for Dean to continue as president. So in effect, the proposed BMA-type church plant was on Finny's naughty list. Please inform me if these facts are inaccurate.

In fact, Dean did not want to start a BMA-type church. And the FOTW founders did not care if he started a BMA church. What they did not want is two former FOTW members starting a "kingdom Christian church" that practiced communion every Sunday, etc. Yes, Dean could have proceeded anyhow, but he had no energy for starting a church that was going to be opposed by FOTW. He was aware of how the other kingdom Christian church in Boston was treated by the founders and was only going to start a church that had the blessing of the FOTW founders.

Yes, many students have felt pressure the last five years to join and stay with FOTW despite the official word that neither Sattler nor FOTW pressures people to join FOTW. This pressure was one piece of why many people have left Sattler and FOTW the past year and a half.

The founder of Sattler took me and another brother downtown on one occasion just ahead of Sattler launching. He showed us the building where the Evangelical movement was birthed. He explained that he has studied movements and that every movement needs a church, a publishing arm, and an educational institution.

In order to be successful, I would add a fourth component, "It needs charactered leaders, accountable leaders, who are also competent in governance".
If the movement draws in the wrong people, any movement is going to falter.

So are you saying that Dean never intended to start a Mennonite church at all?

Was there more than one church that Finny opposed starting? Or is this the one everyone is talking about?

[AndersonD]

I’m a bit surprised so much stock is put into Dean leaving…. Doesn’t his track record show he jumps from church to church to new and exciting every few years? I’d be more concerned why he was even selected for such a position at Sattler and the short sightedness in that over than why he left - is it a wrong observation to say he leaves everything every time.

I think the efforts to be a positive transitional church to get people to grow closer to Christ is noble but there is a threat and reality that when people keep transitioning it really becomes unstable and too often there are much more losses in the end when this goes on….

I agree with you. Dean's behavior is reminiscent of a fellow by the last name of Hoover. I remember him comparing the Hutterites to the Marine Corps. FWIW, he never joined the "Marines".

[Josh]

Amongst Sattler’s other oddities, they expected students to check in once a week at an “accountability” meeting where they had to confess to any porn use (etc.), which seems like it really blurs the line between a church and a college. The people who told me about this talked about it like it was a good thing.

[Josh]

I’m a bit surprised so much stock is put into Dean leaving…. Doesn’t his track record show he jumps from church to church to new and exciting every few years? I’d be more concerned why he was even selected for such a position at Sattler and the short sightedness in that over than why he left - is it a wrong observation to say he leaves everything every time.

I think the efforts to be a positive transitional church to get people to grow closer to Christ is noble but there is a threat and reality that when people keep transitioning it really becomes unstable and too often there are much more losses in the end when this goes on….

I agree with you. Dean's behavior is reminiscent of a fellow by the last name of Hoover. I remember him comparing the Hutterites to the Marine Corps. FWIW, he never joined the "Marines".

Could you detail exactly, what, his history of hopping to “new and exciting” is?

He’s currently at a Beachy church in Holmes County Ohio area. Not what most of us consider “new and exciting”.

For anyone complaining he didn’t go back to Altona, perhaps it would be prudent to first consider the shape Altona is in (they are no longer receiving non-Hutterite background people). Or are you saying he is “unstable” for trying to go be President of Sattler in the first place?

[Soloist]

I don't believe Dean was ever formally part of the Hutterites. He went to assist them in some evangelical work I believe.

His son must have been, considering he married a preacher’s daughter. As I understood it the last time I was in Altona he fully participated in things there.

He had the full blessing of the community when he packed up and moved to Greece, too. I really want to know if anyone here thinks it’s “church hopping” to go to a long term mission field like that.

For what it’s worth, I think the reason he came back from Greece was a family member’s health problems. Also, he was just one of many staff members/board members who decided to leave Sattler in the last two exodus’s.

[joshuabgood]

I don't believe Dean was ever formally part of the Hutterites. He went to assist them in some evangelical work I believe.

His son must have been, considering he married a preacher’s daughter. As I understood it the last time I was in Altona he fully participated in things there.

He had the full blessing of the community when he packed up and moved to Greece, too. I really want to know if anyone here thinks it’s “church hopping” to go to a long term mission field like that.

For what it’s worth, I think the reason he came back from Greece was a family member’s health problems. Also, he was just one of many staff members/board members who decided to leave Sattler in the last two exodus’s.

I always thought it was a smart move by Finny to hire Dean as Dean had credibility with the CA community which comprised the vast vast majority of Sattler students. Further Dean emotes in a really down to earth way with an easier flexibility than some around minor doctrinal points...that built a lot of confidence.

[Dan Z]

One more word, in my view the issues were primarily due to governance problems.

I don't blame him, but in short Finny's power economically, positionally at Sattler. And spiritually, at FoTW, put in place some unhealthy power imbalances in those respective spheres because they all touched each other.

Combine that with a fervent, albeit thoughtful, some would say perhaps overly dogmatic views of FoTW on the things like baptism, women's roles, and communion etc...

And issues are bound to emerge.

Agreed.