Sattler College Turmoil

[cooper]

It’s interesting, you are right that both sides see things differently. Perhaps you would comment on why David resigned?

I would guess because Dean and David go way back. They went to church together in Texas before they moved to Pennsylvania.

[Soloist]

It’s interesting, you are right that both sides see things differently. Perhaps you would comment on why David resigned?

I would guess because Dean and David go way back. They went to church together in Texas before they moved to Pennsylvania.

From what I heard, it was in response to Finny and the church issue.

my point though, it’s easy to make a claim with only one side. As far as I know neither Dean nor David have publicly stated why. Internally yes…

[Nomad]

The original vision of Sattler (as it was told to me) was to recruit evangelical students and indoctrinate them into why nonresistance and other “kingdom Christianity” concepts are a good idea. Needless to say that didn’t happen.

Its an interesting concept...Christians trying to convert/ indoctrinate other Christians. I once heard from a missionary in Vietnam who asked a Vietnamese Christian what they would do if churches swapped believers. His reply was "Unheard of, we don't steal each others sheep..."

I actually, wouldn't mind if Anabaptist toned down some of the rhetoric against Evangelicals and others. Probably, one area where I would respect the Sattler cause is that they seem more open to working with Christians from different backgrounds.

[jahertz]

my point though, it’s easy to make a claim with only one side.

My only real claim is that Finny lacks the power to prevent Mennonites of literally any stripe, hostile or friendly, conservative or liberal, dull or precocious, in Cadillacs or in buggies, from planting a church in the extremely pluralistic city of Boston today if they are so inclined, and so, however dastardly his designs, it follows that he has not done so. And since he is universally acknowledged, whatever else he is, to be no dullard, it seems equally absurd to propose that he has attempted to do something so manifestly impossible.

It seems this should be self-evident regardless what "side" of a particular controversy one favors.

To decline to supply material assistance to a proposed project may be a controversial choice under some circumstances. But it is a very different act from "preventing" or "opposing" said project. It seems to me that in conversations about Sattler and Finny and his alleged penchant for torpedoing hypothetical churches, this distinction is being routinely ignored.

[Josh]

Look, I don’t know what’s going on in Boston. But here is what I do know:

- Finny (and others in Boston) believe in an “apostle” system where apostles are supposed to be ordained or appointed to go plant churches in new places.

- They did not support a Mennonite church plant for students in Boston. Suffice to say such a plant isn’t going to go well without his support when it’s intended to be a home church for students.

- FotW stopped posting sermons online a few months ago.

- A close friend of mine and brother in the Lord liked going to Boston and visiting. He went up for a week recently and couldn’t really get anyone to talk to him or meet with him, outside of the normal Sunday service.

There has been zero transparency about what is going on and no statements at all about why Taylor or Bercot left. Both men are men I respect highly, and it would be worthwhile for Sattler to explain just what its relationship to Anabaptism is now.

[Soloist]

Its an interesting concept...Christians trying to convert/ indoctrinate other Christians. I once heard from a missionary in Vietnam who asked a Vietnamese Christian what they would do if churches swapped believers. His reply was "Unheard of, we don't steal each others sheep..."

I actually, wouldn't mind if Anabaptist toned down some of the rhetoric against Evangelicals and others. Probably, one area where I would respect the Sattler cause is that they seem more open to working with Christians from different backgrounds.

It’s not actually stealing believers if the church isn’t actually a church.
All I’ve seen done is calling people to follow what’s the Scriptures teach.
I was one of these sheep. I guess I stole myself. I for one speak of it as the time I actually started believing what Jesus said.

[Ken]

The original vision of Sattler (as it was told to me) was to recruit evangelical students and indoctrinate them into why nonresistance and other “kingdom Christianity” concepts are a good idea. Needless to say that didn’t happen.

Its an interesting concept...Christians trying to convert/ indoctrinate other Christians. I once heard from a missionary in Vietnam who asked a Vietnamese Christian what they would do if churches swapped believers. His reply was "Unheard of, we don't steal each others sheep..."

That would be just about every single evangelical and protestant mission in Latin America then, including the Anabaptist ones. Since virtually all of them are recruiting Catholics.

[jahertz]

They did not support a Mennonite church plant for students in Boston. Suffice to say such a plant isn’t going to go well without his support when it’s intended to be a home church for students.

First, I am extremely confident that Finny has no problem with a Mennonite church being planted in Boston or with Sattler students attending said hypothetical church. There was apparently a specific proposal put forward involving some type of Sattler sponsorship, which he apparently did not support. Again, agree or disagree with his alleged position, those are two separate issues, and it only confuses the discussion to keep conflating them.

Second, I'm as jaded as anyone on the topic of North American Mennonite capacity to succeed in urban church planting. But to claim that no Mennonite church could possibly flourish in Boston without Finny's personal support? That's more than even I would be willing to say, and if it's really true, it seems like a fairly embarrassing indictment of the Mennonites, doesn't it?

Not to mention that this claim ascribes the same sort of giant-shadow-on-the-wall demigod status to Finny that I poked fun at earlier. The man has prospered financially, yes, but he doesn't control the entire city of Boston.

[Soloist]

They did not support a Mennonite church plant for students in Boston. Suffice to say such a plant isn’t going to go well without his support when it’s intended to be a home church for students.

First, I am extremely confident that Finny has no problem with a Mennonite church being planted in Boston or with Sattler students attending said hypothetical church. There was apparently a specific proposal put forward involving some type of Sattler sponsorship, which he apparently did not support. Again, agree or disagree with his position, those are two separate issues.

I do not share your optimism on Finny.

[jahertz]

I do not share your optimism on Finny.

I wouldn't call it optimism, as I'm making no claims about Finny's motives or character, only what I believe to be his position on one issue based on the evidence available to me.

But if you disagree, fair enough. Maybe I am wrong and Finny is in fact passionately territorial and cannot abide the thought of any Mennonite church being planted within the environs of Boston. I still don't understand how he is supposed to wield the power to block any such undertaking no matter how much he loathes it.

As far as I can learn, no Sattler student so far has been required to submit his or her church choice for Finny's approval, and I am fairly sure that were anyone to attempt a policy of blacklisting churches Finny doesn't like, the board members personally known to me would immediately resign.

Of course, to find out for certain whether Finny wields such power, a meaningful number of Mennonites would have to care enough about it to pony up the resources and personnel required to make such a venture even hypothetically viable—rather than, say, standing about trading unpleasant hearsay, which as helpful as it may be, will possibly prove insufficient to take a challenging church plant over the finish line.

Until there is evidence that these people exist, this discussion is probably academic.