Sattler College Turmoil

[brothereicher]

That's an excellent point, and it's one of the reasons why Sattler chose Boston as its location. We're surrounded by a lot of colleges that have amazing programs that are difficult to match. Our computer science students are able to take CS50 at HES, which is the best introductory CS course available anywhere, or students are able to get into lab internships in which they are the only undergrad students working there.

The ability to network and leverage the resources here in Boston gives our students opportunities that would be very difficult for them to have anywhere else, at a fraction of the cost, and I think our academic results speak for themselves.

I was a science nerd in college. Way back in the 1980s. I started at a Mennonite college across the country that did have reasonable science offerings and facilities on paper but I ended up transferring to a somewhat fancier school back closer to home that had more to offer in environmental sciences. Back then the curriculum at my original Menno college was heavily focused on pre-med and nursing which was not what I wanted. But at both schools I spent many late nights and weekends in the lab doing all kinds of studies and research projects. Especially the second school which had lots of professors doing research that interested me and that took on students as junior researchers. Rinse and repeat years later in grad school. I spend lots of time in the oceanography and fisheries labs and around students and professors who were doing the same.

My middle daughter is now starting her junior year of college and is more or less doing the same thing. She has already been on two different research teams and now works part time at a high-end genomics lab on campus that does lots of NIH research. She often works late hours and weekends which is fine because it is only a couple minutes walk from her apartment.

If she were to attend a place like Sattler I expect she would spend most of her time off campus commuting across the city all all hours and then one would wonder what is actually the point. She has found her own faith community on campus at her big university and I'm happy with where she is at in life. She wouldn't be Sattler material anyway as she is far too liberal to be interested in FOTW theology. So this is just hypothetical. But I'm not sure I would want to send her to a place where most of her time and energy and focus is elsewhere. Seems to me that it would sort of defeat the purpose of going away to college.

For me the irony of it all is the criticism toward secular college education that was voiced by Finny. Then to turn around and send students to those very colleges kind of seems a shade hypocritical.

Also, why is it others on the board can hold degrees from Harvard and such. Yet, then imply that people should beware of college? To me its obvious we should be on our guard when away to college...but why is it okay for them to get the degrees and yet criticize the very colleges they owe their education and their careers. Are they implying that they could handle the temptations while we/ others can't?

That said, I dont have an issue with Sattler...they just probably wouldn't be my 1st choice.

This is an interesting thought that helps me see a perspective I haven't before.

I've talked to Finny at a fair amount of length about how the vision for Sattler was born. (I'm the target audience, I guess. Sattler is the college I wish had existed when I was 18.) Finny was an RA at Harvard and was disappointed to see how many students were doing the bare minimum, and he asked himself, "This is the pinnacle of American education?"

He contrasts that experience with Caltech, which is a "hard science" school and apparently a lot more rigorous.

I wouldn't see Finny as critical of secular education per se. After all, he's gotten plenty of it himself. I think he's frustrated that what's on offer is so often badly done, and he's in a position to attempt to recapture the vision of a solid well-rounded education that prepares you for life.

It's totally OK that Sattler isn't your first pick.
But if you'd ever like to spend some time in an amazing city and see what we're doing, I'd love to show you around.

[RZehr]

Tell me more about paid-for airfare to check out Sattler & Boston. How much do I have to feign interest in sending my children there in order to get to visit M.Milioni?

And is this free travel to Boston a new feature?

[Ken]

That's an excellent point, and it's one of the reasons why Sattler chose Boston as its location. We're surrounded by a lot of colleges that have amazing programs that are difficult to match. Our computer science students are able to take CS50 at HES, which is the best introductory CS course available anywhere, or students are able to get into lab internships in which they are the only undergrad students working there.

The ability to network and leverage the resources here in Boston gives our students opportunities that would be very difficult for them to have anywhere else, at a fraction of the cost, and I think our academic results speak for themselves.

I was a science nerd in college. Way back in the 1980s. I started at a Mennonite college across the country that did have reasonable science offerings and facilities on paper but I ended up transferring to a somewhat fancier school back closer to home that had more to offer in environmental sciences. Back then the curriculum at my original Menno college was heavily focused on pre-med and nursing which was not what I wanted. But at both schools I spent many late nights and weekends in the lab doing all kinds of studies and research projects. Especially the second school which had lots of professors doing research that interested me and that took on students as junior researchers. Rinse and repeat years later in grad school. I spend lots of time in the oceanography and fisheries labs and around students and professors who were doing the same.

My middle daughter is now starting her junior year of college and is more or less doing the same thing. She has already been on two different research teams and now works part time at a high-end genomics lab on campus that does lots of NIH research. She often works late hours and weekends which is fine because it is only a couple minutes walk from her apartment.

If she were to attend a place like Sattler I expect she would spend most of her time off campus commuting across the city all all hours and then one would wonder what is actually the point. She has found her own faith community on campus at her big university and I'm happy with where she is at in life. She wouldn't be Sattler material anyway as she is far too liberal to be interested in FOTW theology. So this is just hypothetical. But I'm not sure I would want to send her to a place where most of her time and energy and focus is elsewhere. Seems to me that it would sort of defeat the purpose of going away to college.

I wrote a long response and MennoNet ate it.

There's no question Sattler is pretty niche.
Max attendance goal is high 200s in the long term.

I appreciate your time to write that response. It helps me see where you're coming from. I'm glad your daughter has found something that works for her!

Sattler students generally take under 6 lab or transfer credits per semester. (I know this because I'm the registrar.) But it might be just as stressful as you've described.

I realize you're not looking for colleges, and I'm not here to recruit. (No one asked me to be here.) But I was serious about the invitation to come to Boston, even if you're just curious to see what's up.

Also, we recently released interviews with our two alumni who are attending med school, and if you're interested in their experiences, you can check that out.

Actually my youngest daughter is a HS senior and looking at colleges. We visited several this summer. But she wants to stay in the Pacific Northwest or at least the west. She also wants to study psychology and pursue a career in psychology or therapy of some sort. So again, I doubt your programs would interest her since you don’t have a psych department. She will likely end up at one of our nearby public universities, but that will be her choice. We have looked at a variety of public and private schools.

Her mother wants her closer by than Boston that is for sure. I think the COVID experience changed her views on that somewhat as we wound up with our oldest daughter basically quarantined across the country her senior year of college. My wife is something of a mother hen and wants to keep her clan closer to home. COVID was hard on her having her child effectively locked up half way across the country. But then she is a Latina and doesn’t get the whole American thing of going across the country for college when there are perfectly good ones close at home. She is from Chile where people don’t generally do that. They live at home and commute to college in their own town. Residential colleges aren’t really a thing in Latin America. Most college students live at home and commute to college or university.

[Nomad]

I was a science nerd in college. Way back in the 1980s. I started at a Mennonite college across the country that did have reasonable science offerings and facilities on paper but I ended up transferring to a somewhat fancier school back closer to home that had more to offer in environmental sciences. Back then the curriculum at my original Menno college was heavily focused on pre-med and nursing which was not what I wanted. But at both schools I spent many late nights and weekends in the lab doing all kinds of studies and research projects. Especially the second school which had lots of professors doing research that interested me and that took on students as junior researchers. Rinse and repeat years later in grad school. I spend lots of time in the oceanography and fisheries labs and around students and professors who were doing the same.

My middle daughter is now starting her junior year of college and is more or less doing the same thing. She has already been on two different research teams and now works part time at a high-end genomics lab on campus that does lots of NIH research. She often works late hours and weekends which is fine because it is only a couple minutes walk from her apartment.

If she were to attend a place like Sattler I expect she would spend most of her time off campus commuting across the city all all hours and then one would wonder what is actually the point. She has found her own faith community on campus at her big university and I'm happy with where she is at in life. She wouldn't be Sattler material anyway as she is far too liberal to be interested in FOTW theology. So this is just hypothetical. But I'm not sure I would want to send her to a place where most of her time and energy and focus is elsewhere. Seems to me that it would sort of defeat the purpose of going away to college.

For me the irony of it all is the criticism toward secular college education that was voiced by Finny. Then to turn around and send students to those very colleges kind of seems a shade hypocritical.

Also, why is it others on the board can hold degrees from Harvard and such. Yet, then imply that people should beware of college? To me its obvious we should be on our guard when away to college...but why is it okay for them to get the degrees and yet criticize the very colleges they owe their education and their careers. Are they implying that they could handle the temptations while we/ others can't?

That said, I dont have an issue with Sattler...they just probably wouldn't be my 1st choice.

This is an interesting thought that helps me see a perspective I haven't before.

I've talked to Finny at a fair amount of length about how the vision for Sattler was born. (I'm the target audience, I guess. Sattler is the college I wish had existed when I was 18.) Finny was an RA at Harvard and was disappointed to see how many students were doing the bare minimum, and he asked himself, "This is the pinnacle of American education?"

He contrasts that experience with Caltech, which is a "hard science" school and apparently a lot more rigorous.

I wouldn't see Finny as critical of secular education per se. After all, he's gotten plenty of it himself. I think he's frustrated that what's on offer is so often badly done, and he's in a position to attempt to recapture the vision of a solid well-rounded education that prepares you for life.

It's totally OK that Sattler isn't your first pick.
But if you'd ever like to spend some time in an amazing city and see what we're doing, I'd love to show you around.

I have no doubt Finny has good intentions, it's just the way it came across to me. I'll admit I might have certain biases that don't match with Sattlers vision...but I also have friends that work there so I'm not entirely a slave to my bias. My reasons for not going there would probably be more theological than educational.

[brothereicher]

I was a science nerd in college. Way back in the 1980s. I started at a Mennonite college across the country that did have reasonable science offerings and facilities on paper but I ended up transferring to a somewhat fancier school back closer to home that had more to offer in environmental sciences. Back then the curriculum at my original Menno college was heavily focused on pre-med and nursing which was not what I wanted. But at both schools I spent many late nights and weekends in the lab doing all kinds of studies and research projects. Especially the second school which had lots of professors doing research that interested me and that took on students as junior researchers. Rinse and repeat years later in grad school. I spend lots of time in the oceanography and fisheries labs and around students and professors who were doing the same.

My middle daughter is now starting her junior year of college and is more or less doing the same thing. She has already been on two different research teams and now works part time at a high-end genomics lab on campus that does lots of NIH research. She often works late hours and weekends which is fine because it is only a couple minutes walk from her apartment.

If she were to attend a place like Sattler I expect she would spend most of her time off campus commuting across the city all all hours and then one would wonder what is actually the point. She has found her own faith community on campus at her big university and I'm happy with where she is at in life. She wouldn't be Sattler material anyway as she is far too liberal to be interested in FOTW theology. So this is just hypothetical. But I'm not sure I would want to send her to a place where most of her time and energy and focus is elsewhere. Seems to me that it would sort of defeat the purpose of going away to college.

I wrote a long response and MennoNet ate it.

There's no question Sattler is pretty niche.
Max attendance goal is high 200s in the long term.

I appreciate your time to write that response. It helps me see where you're coming from. I'm glad your daughter has found something that works for her!

Sattler students generally take under 6 lab or transfer credits per semester. (I know this because I'm the registrar.) But it might be just as stressful as you've described.

I realize you're not looking for colleges, and I'm not here to recruit. (No one asked me to be here.) But I was serious about the invitation to come to Boston, even if you're just curious to see what's up.

Also, we recently released interviews with our two alumni who are attending med school, and if you're interested in their experiences, you can check that out.

Actually my youngest daughter is a HS senior and looking at colleges. We visited several this summer. But she wants to stay in the Pacific Northwest or at least the west. She also wants to study psychology and pursue a career in psychology or therapy of some sort. So again, I doubt your programs would interest her since you don’t have a psych department. She will likely end up at one of our nearby public universities, but that will be her choice. We have looked at a variety of public and private schools.

Her mother wants her closer by than Boston that is for sure. I think the COVID experience changed her views on that somewhat as we would up with our oldest daughter basically quarantined across the country her senior year of college. My wife is something of a mother hen and wants to keep her clan closer to home. COVID was hard on her having her child effectively locked up half way across the country. But then she is a Latina and doesn’t get the whole American thing of going across the country for college when there are perfectly good ones close at home. She is from Chile where people don’t generally do that. They live at home and commute to college in their own town. Residential colleges aren’t really a thing in Latin America. Most college students live at home and commute to college or university.

I wish your daughter the best in her college search.
I went to a college in Ohio about two hours from home, so I get it. I can't imagine I would have even considered the West Coast or anything that far from home at the age of 18.

[brothereicher]

For me the irony of it all is the criticism toward secular college education that was voiced by Finny. Then to turn around and send students to those very colleges kind of seems a shade hypocritical.

Also, why is it others on the board can hold degrees from Harvard and such. Yet, then imply that people should beware of college? To me its obvious we should be on our guard when away to college...but why is it okay for them to get the degrees and yet criticize the very colleges they owe their education and their careers. Are they implying that they could handle the temptations while we/ others can't?

That said, I dont have an issue with Sattler...they just probably wouldn't be my 1st choice.

This is an interesting thought that helps me see a perspective I haven't before.

I've talked to Finny at a fair amount of length about how the vision for Sattler was born. (I'm the target audience, I guess. Sattler is the college I wish had existed when I was 18.) Finny was an RA at Harvard and was disappointed to see how many students were doing the bare minimum, and he asked himself, "This is the pinnacle of American education?"

He contrasts that experience with Caltech, which is a "hard science" school and apparently a lot more rigorous.

I wouldn't see Finny as critical of secular education per se. After all, he's gotten plenty of it himself. I think he's frustrated that what's on offer is so often badly done, and he's in a position to attempt to recapture the vision of a solid well-rounded education that prepares you for life.

It's totally OK that Sattler isn't your first pick.
But if you'd ever like to spend some time in an amazing city and see what we're doing, I'd love to show you around.

I have no doubt Finny has good intentions, it's just the way it came across to me. I'll admit I might have certain biases that don't match with Sattlers vision...but I also have friends that work there so I'm not entirely a slave to my bias. My reasons for not going there would probably be more theological than educational.

Totally fair. There are places I'd avoid for theological reasons, too.

If I've learned anything over the past two years or so, it's that I've got to be honest with myself about my biases.

(Also that two different people can have radically different experiences in the same place or with the same person.)

I appreciate you weighing in.
If you ever visit your friends who work with me, look me up and ask me for MFA tickets.

[brothereicher]

Tell me more about paid-for airfare to check out Sattler & Boston. How much do I have to feign interest in sending my children there in order to get to visit M.Milioni?

And is this free travel to Boston a new feature?

Well, we aren't just flying people to Boston willy-nilly.

But we're inviting a number of guest speakers to come share at our Chapel on Sunday, and we cover travel for that.
I dunno if you give Chapel talks or not, but if you're interested, DM me and we'll talk details.

[Josh]

Chapel on *Sunday*?

When I went to (nominally Christian) college, chapel was on Tuesdays and Thursdays. However, Sundays were not a day when the college held events and students were encouraged to go to church on Sunday morning.

Is Sattler operating a church now?

[Josh]

Sattler has recently started offering students loans of up to $5000 per year interest free, with a single annual administration fee of several hundred dollars. The loans are to be repaid within two years of graduation, or other arrangements made.

A $5000 loan with a $200 fee that has to be repaid within 2 years isn't "interest free"; that's about 2% interest (admittedly a competitive rate right now).

[Soloist]

The local christian college requires students attend chapel on Sunday, is this an optional service or required at Sattler?