Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Josh]

It should be obvious that voluntary service can’t consist of sending your young people overseas to various countries in a time of war.

[Ken]

It should be obvious that voluntary service can’t consist of sending your young people overseas to various countries in a time of war.

Who said anything about overseas service? There is plenty of work here at home. Even the Mormons do that too. It is possible to do both

My only point is that a program designed to fit some obsolete 1940s version of selective service CO regulations many not be what you would ideally design if the only objective is create the best and most productive volunteer service opportunities for your youth today.

[RZehr]

I expect that the draft would be reinstated if the US got involved in another World War. Technology, equipment etc., but they will still have a shortage of people willing to kill and be killed. Maybe not in the first 18 months, when patriotism is roiling the nation. But World Wars haven’t been short term affairs.

And, I think that any preparation of a CO service unit is far better than nothing. Even if it is designed for a 1940’s style draft. And I suppose a new draft and exemptions would indeed look quite differently. There are still going to be aspects that will carry on. Seems like it might be easier to modify, even heavily modify, and expand a skeletal program, than to be completely flat footed.

Even the military famously trains in peacetime. Even if they train to fight the previous war.

[temporal1]

I expect that the draft would be reinstated if the US got involved in another World War. Technology, equipment etc., but they will still have a shortage of people willing to kill and be killed. Maybe not in the first 18 months, when patriotism is roiling the nation. But World Wars haven’t been short term affairs.

And, I think that any preparation of a CO service unit is far better than nothing.

Even if it is designed for a 1940’s style draft. And I suppose a new draft and exemptions would indeed look quite differently.
There are still going to be aspects that will carry on. Seems like it might be easier to modify, even heavily modify, and expand a skeletal program, than to be completely flat footed.

Even the military famously trains in peacetime. Even if they train to fight the previous war.

Agreed. Nothing to lose, everything to gain, not a wasted effort on any scale.
To repeat, i’m not aware of any particularly distinctive responses to COs in history, why expect something substantially unique?

Lots of folks enjoy hand-waving away others’ interests, esp when they have no vested interest in results.

[Josh]

It should be obvious that voluntary service can’t consist of sending your young people overseas to various countries in a time of war.

Who said anything about overseas service? There is plenty of work here at home. Even the Mormons do that too. It is possible to do both

You did and brought up Mormon service which is overseas. However, Mormons are not COs.

My only point is that a program designed to fit some obsolete 1940s version of selective service CO regulations many not be what you would ideally design if the only objective is create the best and most productive volunteer service opportunities for your youth today.

I am aware you have zero respect for either officials in SSS or for my church’s board which meets with them. Nonetheless, we try to do the best what those government officials ask of us.

Our service units are not like 1940s VS. The most significant difference is that there are service units for girls in addition to boys.

[Ken]

It should be obvious that voluntary service can’t consist of sending your young people overseas to various countries in a time of war.

Who said anything about overseas service? There is plenty of work here at home. Even the Mormons do that too. It is possible to do both

You did and brought up Mormon service which is overseas. However, Mormons are not COs.

My only point is that a program designed to fit some obsolete 1940s version of selective service CO regulations many not be what you would ideally design if the only objective is create the best and most productive volunteer service opportunities for your youth today.

I am aware you have zero respect for either officials in SSS or for my church’s board which meets with them. Nonetheless, we try to do the best what those government officials ask of us.

Our service units are not like 1940s VS. The most significant difference is that there are service units for girls in addition to boys.

No, you are right. I really don't have respect for the selective service and for people who would choose to serve in such a useless vestigial organization that hasn't done a single thing or accomplished anything in literally 50 years.

That said, I am a big believer in service, to both God and your community. I'm simply saying that your church and your young people should be organizing their lives and service around what they think God and their hearts are telling them to do here in 2023. Not what some bureaucrat tells them based on obsolete regulations and guidelines from another era that will never see the light of day again.

And you know what? If there ever is some mass conscription war again, then I think your youth, should they decide to be conscientious objectors, will find their own way because of their faith. Not because they checked off some box that was pre-approved by the government years earlier.

[Josh]

That said, I am a big believer in service, to both God and your community. I'm simply saying that your church and your young people should be organizing their lives and service around what they think God and their hearts are telling them to do here in 2023. Not what some bureaucrat tells them based on obsolete regulations and guidelines from another era that will never see the light of day again.

We already engage in all kinds of service activity. We try to do additional service to justify being COs. Being a CO is a privilege not a right.

And you know what? If there ever is some mass conscription war again, then I think your youth, should they decide to be conscientious objectors, will find their own way because of their faith. Not because they checked off some box that was pre-approved by the government years earlier.

That is actually what the director of CO at SSS told us. Perhaps you shouldn’t have so much contempt for the federal employees who are part of SSS.

[Ken]

That said, I am a big believer in service, to both God and your community. I'm simply saying that your church and your young people should be organizing their lives and service around what they think God and their hearts are telling them to do here in 2023. Not what some bureaucrat tells them based on obsolete regulations and guidelines from another era that will never see the light of day again.

We already engage in all kinds of service activity. We try to do additional service to justify being COs. Being a CO is a privilege not a right.

And you know what? If there ever is some mass conscription war again, then I think your youth, should they decide to be conscientious objectors, will find their own way because of their faith. Not because they checked off some box that was pre-approved by the government years earlier.

That is actually what the director of CO at SSS told us. Perhaps you shouldn’t have so much contempt for the federal employees who are part of SSS.

I have contempt for a Federal agency that has done absolutely nothing for the past 50 years except create busy-work. It isn't their fault really. It is the fault of Congress who won't get around to eliminating it but instead shovels $36 million dollars to it every single year for more doing nothing.

It would be as if we still had an agency with a staff and $36 million annual budget that was devoted to managing commercial whaling in the US and busy writing regulations for fictional American whaling ships despite the fact that commercial whaling in the US hasn't been legal since 1971.

[RZehr]

Or it could be that the government wants to keep the agency in place in case they do end up needing it for a major war.

[Josh]

I’m grateful we have a liaison with the government to discuss how we can maintain a positive relationship and witness to be COs but still serve our country.