I'm not racist, but....

[ken_sylvania]

So why does race matter at all? Why not simply punish criminals regardless of race?

You really don't get it do you? Hate crimes are not about the race of the criminal, they are about the motive of the criminal. And motive very much matters when it comes to distinguishing crimes. In a shooting incident, motive is the difference between an unfortunate accident, manslaughter, 2nd degree murder, or 1st degree murder.

Consider three identical crimes:

#1. Two men are drinking in a bar. One insults the other. The other one attacks him in response. The police show up, they arrest and charge the second guy for assault but it is just a common ordinary bar fight.

#2. Shop owner sees a guy shoplifting by stashing candy in his coat. It is the third time this week. He confronts the guy and "roughs him up" to "teach him a lesson" about never entering his store again. The police show up, arrest the guy for shoplifting but also consider whether to press assault charges against the shop owner.

#3. Some street hood is nursing a hatred of Asians because of the rabbit hole of hate he has descended into on the internet. He thinks they started COVID and wants to rid America of Asians. He sees an elderly Asian lady walking home from the market and attacks her while screaming racist obscenities, leaving her on the ground battered and bleeding.

Security cameras catch all three incidents. They are all clear cut cases of assault. Injuries are similar in all three cases. No questions about the facts of the cases. Will they be treated equally in the criminal justice system? No they will not. The assault on the elderly Asian lady is the far more heinous crime because of the motive. It isn't just some private conflict between two individuals. It is intended to create fear in the greater Asian community and generate hostility towards Asians. It is similar to terrorism in that respect. The DA understandably charges the 3rd criminal not just with simple assault, but with hate crimes as well. And he goes away for far longer than the assailants #1 and #2 who both engaged in the same exact act of assault. Both of whom are unlikely to serve any time at all.

In none of these cases does the race of the criminal have anything to do with the nature of the crime. The motive of the criminal is what elevated the third assault into a hate crime but not the other two. And that is why the third assault merited greater attention and punishment. Few people will think an injustice occurred if the drunk in the bar fight got probation, the shop owner got the charges dismissed, and the hood who assaulted the Asian lady goes away for 5 years. Regardless of what the races of the assailants were.

You must have a fascinating definition of "identical".

[Josh]

Let’s consider 3 different cases:

#1. Two men are drinking in a bar. One insults the other. They are different ethnic groups and start calling each other ethnic slurs. The other one attacks him in response. The police show up, they arrest and charge the second guy for assault but it is just a common ordinary bar fight. The guy who is arrested keeps shouting obscenities and slurs on the way out.

#2. Shop owner sees a guy shoplifting by stashing candy in his coat. It is the third time this week. He confronts the guy and "roughs him up" to "teach him a lesson" about never entering his store again. The police show up, arrest the guy for shoplifting but also consider whether to press assault charges against the shop owner. The two happen to be of different races (which is to be expected as the shop is in a very diverse area). People with the shoplifter’s race frequently do engage in petty shoplifting (although most don’t, obviously). The store owner is from another country originally and also benefits from a steady stream of customers of the aforementioned race who like walking to a corner store.

#3. Some street thug decides to play the “knockout game” and assaults an elderly lady while screaming obscenities, leaving her on the ground battered and bleeding. They are of the same race. He also utters other obscenities such as ones disrespectful to women. It is suspected he had resentful feelings towards elderly and/or women and it was made worse by reading fringe blogs online.

I think we can all agree #3 is a much more serious crime than #1 or #2 and merits a harsher punishment. For the record, I’ve actually seen #1 happen exactly as described above.

[joshuabgood]

For some reason I took it that you were suggesting that police were involved in good old fashioned racism in certain areas of the country.

Tim Scott had some thoughts on his experiences...a few years back.

I really like what I see happening in our community in small town GA as it relates to law enforcement. I recently attended the annual "Call to Manhood", one day conference a local black church puts on. The attendance was mostly black men and boys. They had invited the white local sheriff, the white police chief, and a black state patrol officer to have a breakout session with the young men, ages 13-20. I didn't attend that session but to see how the event organizers (close friends of mine) and law enforcement were working together for a common cause was very encouraging.

I also noted that there was practically nothing mentioned by the speakers (black & white) at the conference about racism but there was a lot of emphasis on taking responsibility for their lives, getting a good education and waiting until marriage to have children. There was no "you are a victim of systemic or outright racism" expressed at all. There was a strong emphasis on becoming and being a responsible man who contributes positively to society in general.

Also, the local police department concluded their first annual Police Academy a few months ago, where they invite community leaders and influential people (black and white) to participate in police training exercises, patrols and other police activities. Upon completion, they invited the attendees to talk about their experiences and those responses were published in the local paper. One that really stood out to me was from a young black lady who said she went into it with a very negative view of law enforcement because of everything she's heard about law enforcement in recent years but she said, after seeing what law enforcement have to deal with every day, she was forced to change her view and came away with a deep respect for them.

Both of these events (I only attended the church event) made me all the more aware that certain narratives being pushed today can have very negative impacts on how people view their own lives and law enforcement in general.

Do you feel that Tim Scott's experiences are worth considering? And if so that there is a systemic racial component to be considered?

[GaryK]

Tim Scott had some thoughts on his experiences...a few years back.

I really like what I see happening in our community in small town GA as it relates to law enforcement. I recently attended the annual "Call to Manhood", one day conference a local black church puts on. The attendance was mostly black men and boys. They had invited the white local sheriff, the white police chief, and a black state patrol officer to have a breakout session with the young men, ages 13-20. I didn't attend that session but to see how the event organizers (close friends of mine) and law enforcement were working together for a common cause was very encouraging.

I also noted that there was practically nothing mentioned by the speakers (black & white) at the conference about racism but there was a lot of emphasis on taking responsibility for their lives, getting a good education and waiting until marriage to have children. There was no "you are a victim of systemic or outright racism" expressed at all. There was a strong emphasis on becoming and being a responsible man who contributes positively to society in general.

Also, the local police department concluded their first annual Police Academy a few months ago, where they invite community leaders and influential people (black and white) to participate in police training exercises, patrols and other police activities. Upon completion, they invited the attendees to talk about their experiences and those responses were published in the local paper. One that really stood out to me was from a young black lady who said she went into it with a very negative view of law enforcement because of everything she's heard about law enforcement in recent years but she said, after seeing what law enforcement have to deal with every day, she was forced to change her view and came away with a deep respect for them.

Both of these events (I only attended the church event) made me all the more aware that certain narratives being pushed today can have very negative impacts on how people view their own lives and law enforcement in general.

Do you feel that Tim Scott's experiences are worth considering? And if so that there is a systemic racial component to be considered?

Sure. I believe Tim Scott's experiences were all too common and needed to be addressed. I'm guessing those types of experiences factored into both events I mentioned including law enforcement - community interaction. But I find it interesting that what Tim Scott proposed as a solution was rejected.

[temporal1]

2025

I have a poor attitude towards college-educated white people and have to remind myself to affirm their humanity and treat them like individuals instead of group stereotypes.

some of my best friends are college-educated white people ..

[JohnL]

I’m not racist but I do discern the actions of individuals so that I can meet my responsibilities to God, my family, and my church community. Judgment I leave to God. I’m good at discerning but I’m not THAT good in order to administer judgment.