I'm not racist, but....

[Ken]

BTW, I suggest you take a little more time to make sure your info is accurate. That engraving seems to have pre-dated Robert E. Lee's surrender at Appomattox by more than two years.

In the picture they are celebrating emancipation day and victory in Port Royal Island, South Carolina in 1863 which was occupied by Black South Carolina union troops at that time. https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/99614128/ The war did grind on for another two years. It took Sherman's march to completely liberate South Carolina.

We could do Civil War history all we want. It is remarkably similar to WW2 in many ways. After Stalingrad and the Battle of the Atlantic that war was basically lost for Germany. Yet the Nazis insisted on fighting on to the very bitter end resulting in the near total destruction of Germany. That was their choice. In the Civil War it was essentially lost for the Confederates after Gettysburg. The next two years were essentially an endless rear-guard action and it took the near total destruction of the south to bring about surrender. The Nazis and Confederates share an amazing number of similarities including the delusion of empire based founded on racism. And an ideology that brought both to complete ruin. "For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind." (Hosea 8:7) is apropos for both the Nazis and Confederacy. We should be loath to start wars because they have a tendency of spiraling out of control. Especially wars of choice based on lies and racism.

As for relating this all back to the topic at hand.

1. Yes the Confederacy was founded and based on the most vile and evil forms of racism and slavery.
2. Yes the Confederate flag is a racist symbol. It was a racist symbol when it was carried by the armies of slavery during the Civil War. It was a racist symbol when it was resurrected in the 20th Century as the banner of segregation and opposition to civil rights. And it remains a racist symbol today
3. No, that doesn't make the North or United States into a flawless peaceful and just society. But it does make it better than the Confederacy.

[ken_sylvania]

3. No, that doesn't make the North or United States into a flawless peaceful and just society. But it does make it better than the Confederacy.

Arguably less bad... however the fact remains that the North got into the civil war because of their own lust for power and desire for control, not because of some righteous desire to free the slaves or protect the poor defenseless majorities in the south. Neither the North nor the South expected the war to exact terrible toll of death and suffering that it did. But pride, greed and prejudice will have consequences, and this nation paid the terrible price.

[Chris]

All are the children of God creating in the image of him.

I'm not a racist and want to share God's word with everybody.

It's not racist to say "African American commit more crimes than whites per capita". It's a fact of life. But in a deep spiritual understanding of the Christian faith, we must examine that the use of Profanity is equally as sinful as crimes of the world. Though profanity is not recorded as crimes.

Thus we are all sinners, and fall short of the glory of God. Profanity, crimes against the law, lust, hate, lying, all are sins.

Makes no difference. Racism denies the divinity god instilled in mankind and judges the sins of others while denying the beam in our own eyes.

[Chris]

Not the latter, slavery of Africans, but racism against the Indians. And from my experience living in the North (rather dated - the mid to late 70's), it appears that that prejudice against Indians remains.

In the historical period, no, they didn't enslave them, they 'just' sought to annihilate them through systematic genocide, using the military to do so. Then when that fell out of favor, they continued their efforts through "cultural and linguistic genocide".

Of course. I highlighted that as an obvious example.

I would suggest that the ideals of America as reflected in the Constitution are noble. The outlaw of slavery, equal protection for all under the 14th Amendment, Upholding Indian treaties as the highest law under the land under Article 6. But in practice we often fall far far short of those ideals.

That is in direct contrast to the Confederate cause which by their own words was premised on the exact opposite principles.

In what parallel universe was the Constitution an anti slavery document?

The 13th Amendment to the constitution.

[Chris]

3. No, that doesn't make the North or United States into a flawless peaceful and just society. But it does make it better than the Confederacy.

Arguably less bad... however the fact remains that the North got into the civil war because of their own lust for power and desire for control, not because of some righteous desire to free the slaves or protect the poor defenseless majorities in the south. Neither the North nor the South expected the war to exact terrible toll of death and suffering that it did. But pride, greed and prejudice will have consequences, and this nation paid the terrible price.

My belief is that the confederacy was correct for state's rights though slavery was totally wrong.

Interestingly a shot was never fired until the south issued their own currency. Makes me wonder if it was a banker war more than anything. Funny how everything evil seems to revolve around money.

[Ken]

It's not racist to say "African American commit more crimes than whites per capita". It's a fact of life.

Ah, but the racism comes out when one asks WHY that is the case.

Some answers to that question are, indeed, racist. Other answers are not.

[Chris]

It's not racist to say "African American commit more crimes than whites per capita". It's a fact of life.

Ah, but the racism comes out when one asks WHY that is the case.

Some answers to that question are, indeed, racist. Other answers are not.

Because the FBI said so.

Again, crimes against law and crimes against God are measured equally and all hated by God. One is not greater than the other.
Laws of the land are often formulated around the worship of "reason". Profanity can lead you to hell just as quick as murder or theft.

Thus we all fall short. The FBI basically records the records of crimes which laws of the world prohibit. The FBI often ignores crimes against God that the law does not prohibit. My plank doesn't allow me to see the sins of others.

I've judged others. I've used profanity. I've been angry many times. I have a plank. The laws of the land do not care about those. But I can go to hell for them without Christ.

[Ken]

It's not racist to say "African American commit more crimes than whites per capita". It's a fact of life.

Ah, but the racism comes out when one asks WHY that is the case.

Some answers to that question are, indeed, racist. Other answers are not.

Because the FBI said so.

Again, crimes against law and crimes against God are measured equally and all hated by God. One is not greater than the other.
Laws of the land are often formulated around the worship of "reason". Profanity can lead you to hell just as quick as murder or theft.

Thus we all fall short. The FBI basically records the records of crimes which laws of the world prohibit. The FBI often ignores crimes against God that the law does not prohibit. My plank doesn't allow me to see the sins of others.

I've judged others. I've used profanity. I've been angry many times. I have a plank. The laws of the land do not care about those. But I can go to hell for them without Christ.

FBI crime stats report the WHAT, not the WHY.

[Josh]

Most victims of crime (or people trying not to become victims) care much more about the WHAT than the WHY.

I don’t really care WHY someone would want to murder me, steal my car, etc. I would be much more focused on simply avoiding the situation happening at all.

[Ken]

Most victims of crime (or people trying not to become victims) care much more about the WHAT than the WHY.

I don’t really care WHY someone would want to murder me, steal my car, etc. I would be much more focused on simply avoiding the situation happening at all.

If you care at all about reducing crime (either in the aggregate or in the individual). And if you care about making the world a safer, more peaceful, orderly, and just place for our children. Then perhaps you should care about the why as well.