HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:19 pm
I believe it was GK Chesterton who had some droll remark about people who lead with “I believe or I think”. I think his conclusion was the exact opposite of Sudsy’s.
So why would a 'Know-it-All' type attempt to soften or give allowance for other views by using these phrases ahead of their views ? Was he suggesting they were involved in some form of false humility ?
...what we suffer from to-day is humility in the wrong place. Modesty has moved from the organ of ambition. Modesty has settled upon the organ of conviction; where it was never meant to be. A man was meant to be doubtful about himself, but undoubting about the truth; this has been exactly reversed. Nowadays the part of a man that a man does assert is exactly the part he ought not to assert himself. The part he doubts is exactly the part he ought not to doubt -- the Divine Reason. Huxley preached a humility content to learn from Nature. But the new sceptic is so humble that he doubts if he can even learn. Thus we should be wrong if we had said hastily that there is no humility typical of our time. The truth is that there is a real humility typical of our time; but it so happens that it is practically a more poisonous humility than the wildest prostrations of the ascetic. The old humility was a spur that prevented a man from stopping; not a nail in his boot that prevented him from going on. For the old humility made a man doubtful about his efforts, which might make him work harder. But the new humility makes a man doubtful about his aims, which will make him stop working altogether.
At any street corner we may meet a man who utters the frantic and blasphemous statement that he may be wrong. Every day one comes across somebody who says that of course his view may not be the right one. Of course his view must be the right one, or it is not his view. We are on the road to producing a race of men too mentally modest to believe in the multiplication table. We are in danger of seeing philosophers who doubt the law of gravity as being a mere fancy of their own. Scoffers of old time were too proud to be convinced; but these are too humble to be convinced. The meek do inherit the earth; but the modern sceptics are too meek even to claim their inheritance.
A lot of people (myself included) learn to prefix our statements with "I believe" or "I think" due to interacting with pedants who will immediately "correct" any statement we would make with "Well, that's your opinion" or "You can't claim that is true for everyone", etc., but I think it's a largely useless way of saying things. Of course someone "thinks" or "believes" something if they state it.
How exactly is it improved to add that extra verbage? Of course, sometimes two people just plain disagree, and if not carefully tended to, the relationship will devolve into one or both people accusing each of other of lying, deceit, and so forth, which I don't think is very productive at all. Sometimes it just needs to be acknowledged that two people aren't able to agree on the same reality.
HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:19 pm
I believe it was GK Chesterton who had some droll remark about people who lead with “I believe or I think”. I think his conclusion was the exact opposite of Sudsy’s.
So why would a 'Know-it-All' type attempt to soften or give allowance for other views by using these phrases ahead of their views ? Was he suggesting they were involved in some form of false humility ?
...what we suffer from to-day is humility in the wrong place. Modesty has moved from the organ of ambition. Modesty has settled upon the organ of conviction; where it was never meant to be. A man was meant to be doubtful about himself, but undoubting about the truth; this has been exactly reversed. Nowadays the part of a man that a man does assert is exactly the part he ought not to assert himself. The part he doubts is exactly the part he ought not to doubt -- the Divine Reason. Huxley preached a humility content to learn from Nature. But the new sceptic is so humble that he doubts if he can even learn. Thus we should be wrong if we had said hastily that there is no humility typical of our time. The truth is that there is a real humility typical of our time; but it so happens that it is practically a more poisonous humility than the wildest prostrations of the ascetic. The old humility was a spur that prevented a man from stopping; not a nail in his boot that prevented him from going on. For the old humility made a man doubtful about his efforts, which might make him work harder. But the new humility makes a man doubtful about his aims, which will make him stop working altogether.
At any street corner we may meet a man who utters the frantic and blasphemous statement that he may be wrong. Every day one comes across somebody who says that of course his view may not be the right one. Of course his view must be the right one, or it is not his view. We are on the road to producing a race of men too mentally modest to believe in the multiplication table. We are in danger of seeing philosophers who doubt the law of gravity as being a mere fancy of their own. Scoffers of old time were too proud to be convinced; but these are too humble to be convinced. The meek do inherit the earth; but the modern sceptics are too meek even to claim their inheritance.
Okay, that being said, I'm not sure Sudsy was addressing coming across with false humility or pretending they don't know? It seems it's an "know it all" attitude that comes across in such a way they are not open to the fact they may be in error. Infallible.
It may just be a sign of the times. With so many translations, interpretations, teachers- we all stumble in many things. We may have joined a fellowship where we agree with all their interpretations. Then in a group of mixed denominations, someone can be so convinced that ALL their interpretations are right, they come across as a know it all- to those with differing understandings. This is where the "I believe" although sounding unsure, it allows for varying understandings/interpretations
Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:05 pm
So, when you run across Christians who share in this manner, how do you think they should be responded to ?
I'm a horrible person, but I avoid such people. There is no point in trying to converse with someone who has all the answers.
When the know-it-all person is a family member, possibly a sibling, it is difficult to avoid them. Fortunately the conversations aren't one on one, but in a group setting. Hubby and I just sit quietly and listen, while our eyes glaze over.
Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:05 pm
So, when you run across Christians who share in this manner, how do you think they should be responded to ?
I'm a horrible person, but I avoid such people. There is no point in trying to converse with someone who has all the answers.
When the know-it-all person is a family member, possibly a sibling, it is difficult to avoid them. Fortunately the conversations aren't one on one, but in a group setting. Hubby and I just sit quietly and listen, while our eyes glaze over.
Don't get me started on in-laws.... My wife has both a sister and brother that confuse their opinions with God's will. The stories that could be told....
I'm a horrible person, but I avoid such people. There is no point in trying to converse with someone who has all the answers.
When the know-it-all person is a family member, possibly a sibling, it is difficult to avoid them. Fortunately the conversations aren't one on one, but in a group setting. Hubby and I just sit quietly and listen, while our eyes glaze over.
Don't get me started on in-laws.... My wife has both a sister and brother that confuse their opinions with God's will. The stories that could be told....
I understand where you are coming from. We have one in the family that not only touts to be the ultimate authority on the knowledge of the scriptures, but also on many other issues. What ever this person purchases is the "best" and everyone else should purchase the equivalent. Where ever they travel, it was the most wonderful and everyone should travel to those locations. But because it is family and we love family, we attempt to overlook it all, at least publically. I guess we are awful, because on occasion Hubby and I discuss this know-it-all attitude,to each other and get a bit of a chuckle out of it. One of the reasons, is that we just do not conform to know-it-all person's suggestions, but live our own lives as we see fit and within what we feel are being good stewards of our money, time and travel habits.
My wife has cousins that affiliate with the Charity circles. Two of which are ordained, or whatever Charity does when it makes ministers. The level of Supreme Manager of the Universe Syndrome is at unheard of levels.
steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:22 am
My wife has cousins that affiliate with the Charity circles. Two of which are ordained, or whatever Charity does when it makes ministers. The level of Supreme Manager of the Universe Syndrome is at unheard of levels.
Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:05 pm
So, when you run across Christians who share in this manner, how do you think they should be responded to ?
I'm a horrible person, but I avoid such people. There is no point in trying to converse with someone who has all the answers.
When the know-it-all person is a family member, possibly a sibling, it is difficult to avoid them. Fortunately the conversations aren't one on one, but in a group setting. Hubby and I just sit quietly and listen, while our eyes glaze over.
I remember my teen years when I went through a phase of being a 'know-it-all' and would take most anything my mom would say and challenge it until I thought I had won the argument. When she had enough her final words would be something like - 'We'll see what your father has to say when he gets home' and that shut me up. I didn't want to deal with dad. 'Know-it-all' people, that I have run across, don't have many, sometimes any, close friends.
I agree that walking away or just being silent, rather than being sucked into disputes, is probably the way to go most times. I think there are people here that do that well and are irritating to the fighters whereas others of us struggle with walking away from some fights. And perhaps if one's fleshly character was never to walk away, which mine is, it takes being under the Spirit's control to be able to walk away. 'If we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh'.
