Note the word “recent” in that highlighted sentence. I don’t think this is referring to the deaths that happened earlier, especially in light of what the article has to say about excess deaths in the earlier years.
If close to a third of current Covid deaths are being over-reported, I'm not sure I have a whole lot of trust in previous numbers.
I understand that concern, but as the article mentions, they are looking at excess deaths, and in the beginning of the pandemic there was a noticeable amount of excess deaths. That is no longer happening.
The article also says this:
The statistic also captures Covid’s indirect effects, like the surge of vehicle crashes, gun deaths and deaths from missed medical treatments during the pandemic.
How many of the excess deaths could be attributed to these indirect effects? We'll probably never know how many deaths were attributable to only Covid. I don't understand why we don't have that number.
GaryK wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 3:23 pmHow many of the excess deaths could be attributed to these indirect effects? We'll probably never know how many deaths were attributable to only Covid. I don't understand why we don't have that number.
1. We know exactly how many deaths had COVID listed on the death certificate because every state collects such data. We do know that the number is probably not precise for two reasons. First, many of the deaths happened to very elderly people with multiple chronic diseases and conditions and it is difficult if impossible to know the extent to which COVID was the cause of death. Second, many actual COVID deaths went unreported as COVID deaths. People died at home, or in rural areas where medical examiners where reluctant to indicate COVID as the cause of death due to the stigma. So while there was some over-reporting, there was also some under-reporting. Where the balance lies, who knows.
2. We also know how many excess deaths happened during the pandemic. In other words, we knew the death rate before COVD, during COVID, and after COVID. So we can estimate how many excess deaths above the baseline happened during the pandemic. Some might have been completely unrelated to the pandemic. Others might have been directly related. Such as, for example, cancer treatments that were postponed due to the hospitals being full of COVID patients and then the person died of curable cancer.
Either way we aren't ever going to get precise numbers because the underlying data are not that precise. There is both under-reporting and over-reporting happening at the same time.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
back in the height of it all, it was common for the sentinel to have 2 pages of deaths per day. way more than normal. most of them were elderly, and a lot of them were nursing home residents.
now we are back to 1/2 page per day.
the difference that i am seeing, now, is there are many young people in that 1/2 page per day. there is at least 1 person every day in that 1/2 page who is only 40 or 50 ish. i don't remember there ever being that many in the past.
Sliceitup wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 3:00 pm
I understand that concern, but as the article mentions, they are looking at excess deaths, and in the beginning of the pandemic there was a noticeable amount of excess deaths. That is no longer happening.
The way I am reading it is what I had talked about years ago. People dying WITH Covid were counted in with people dying FROM Covid. Two totaly different things, yet they were grouped together.
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
Sliceitup wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 3:00 pm
I understand that concern, but as the article mentions, they are looking at excess deaths, and in the beginning of the pandemic there was a noticeable amount of excess deaths. That is no longer happening.
The way I am reading it is what I had talked about years ago. People dying WITH Covid were counted in with people dying FROM Covid. Two totaly different things, yet they were grouped together.
And it completely makes sense to say that deaths are over inflated by those WITH Covid when there are no excess deaths like is happening now. It did not make sense when excess deaths were higher than the number dying from Covid. In 2020 the US suffered roughly 470,000 excess deaths, but only had 352,000 confirmed Covid deaths.
Sliceitup wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 3:00 pm
I understand that concern, but as the article mentions, they are looking at excess deaths, and in the beginning of the pandemic there was a noticeable amount of excess deaths. That is no longer happening.
The way I am reading it is what I had talked about years ago. People dying WITH Covid were counted in with people dying FROM Covid. Two totaly different things, yet they were grouped together.
And it completely makes sense to say that deaths are over inflated by those WITH Covid when there are no excess deaths like is happening now. It did not make sense when excess deaths were higher than the number dying from Covid. In 2020 the US suffered roughly 470,000 excess deaths, but only had 352,000 confirmed Covid deaths.
There were people dying because of administration issues. For example if someone tested positive for Covid but had no symptoms they were sent home to quarantine but the hospitals counted one hospital bed used that no other patient could have even though it was empty for a set time frame “in case” the Covid positive person came back and needed it. Thus there was a number of patients requiring a bed that got shipped to other hospitals and died on route or never were able to receive the care they needed to survive an injury or illness. And there is other examples of the mayor of New York placing Covid positive people in homes where people with compromised immune systems were living and it has been admitted tens of thousands of people died that wouldn’t have died so soon because of such policies. And of course there is more similar explanations of why administration was much of the cause of more deaths.
0 x
Psalms 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
The way I am reading it is what I had talked about years ago. People dying WITH Covid were counted in with people dying FROM Covid. Two totaly different things, yet they were grouped together.
And it completely makes sense to say that deaths are over inflated by those WITH Covid when there are no excess deaths like is happening now. It did not make sense when excess deaths were higher than the number dying from Covid. In 2020 the US suffered roughly 470,000 excess deaths, but only had 352,000 confirmed Covid deaths.
There were people dying because of administration issues. For example if someone tested positive for Covid but had no symptoms they were sent home to quarantine but the hospitals counted one hospital bed used that no other patient could have even though it was empty for a set time frame “in case” the Covid positive person came back and needed it. Thus there was a number of patients requiring a bed that got shipped to other hospitals and died on route or never were able to receive the care they needed to survive an injury or illness. And there is other examples of the mayor of New York placing Covid positive people in homes where people with compromised immune systems were living and it has been admitted tens of thousands of people died that wouldn’t have died so soon because of such policies. And of course there is more similar explanations of why administration was much of the cause of more deaths.
Every place is different but that isn't remotely how things happened out here. My wife was actually on the administrative team that coordinated COVID hospitalizations across a 4-county metro area with over a dozen hospitals. It was very high-stress work and left her absolutely sapped. They basically lived in a back-office war room with computers and phones where they had to constantly juggle hundreds of ICU beds and thousands of patients and do constant triage, sending patients home who under normal circumstance wouldn't be discharged because there were sicker patients waiting. No beds were reserved for people sent home just in case they might return. Doctors across the metro area would have patients that they would put into the queue for hospitalization and they would have to review all the cases, medical records, and vital information to decide which ones has priority over others. The other doctors nick-named them the "death squad" which my wife only told me later.
As for sending patients back to nursing homes? There was sometimes no alternative. They had no other home to go to when discharged to make way for sicker patients. When elderly get sent to nursing homes they generally sell or abandon their previous home so no place else to go. What were they supposed to do? Just wheel them out into the street and leave them in the parking lot? And nursing homes should have been capable of setting up their own COVID wards. They are staffed with medical professionals, or should be. They should have been able to easily set up COVID isolation wards. Infectious disease management is not particularly complicated Unfortunately in this country there are way too many corporate-owned nursing homes that have cut staffing levels down to the bone for the sake of profits and a lot of them were very incompetent when it came to dealing with COVID, in part due to that reason.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
The town of Moscow, Idaho, will pay a $300,000 settlement to three Christians arrested during a maskless outdoor church service during the pandemic.
Gabriel Rench, Sean Bohnet, and Rachel Bohnet sued the city in March 2021 over their arrests at the “Psalm sing” event held outside the Moscow City Hall by Christ Church in September 2020. At the time, the city was still under a mask mandate.
The plaintiffs alleged that officials violated their First and Fourth Amendment rights by taking them into custody.
In a video of the arrest, other members of the church continued to sing as the three were handcuffed.
Rev. Ben Zornes had said that the event was a protest against the mask mandates, which he referred to as “largely groundless laws,” according to a report from Fox News at the time.
A magistrate judge dismissed the city’s case against them, and U.S. District Court Judge Morrison C. England, Jr. wrote that the “plaintiffs should never have been arrested in the first place, and the constitutionality of what the City thought [its] code said is irrelevant.”
“Somehow, every single City official involved overlooked the exclusionary language [of constitutionally protected behavior] in the Ordinance,” the judge continued.
Rench told Fox that the incident made him a pariah in the small college town.
“I think it’s no secret that portions of our government and political groups are now starting to target Christians in a way that has never really happened in America or Canada,” he said.
“I’m in a conservative state, but I live in a liberal town, and the liberals had no problem arresting me for practicing my religious rights and my Constitutional rights,” Rench continued. “But my [Republican] governor also didn’t defend me either. If you look at what’s going on in Canada, I think America’s 10 years, at most 20 years, behind Canada if we don’t make significant changes.”
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
Valerie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:27 pm
All this to consider in light of the fact that leftist government keep conveying "We need to reduce the population".
I thought this "leftist government" was too pro-immigration for the taste of most conservatives. Which is the opposite of reducing the population.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
