How could transitional Anabaptists stop being that way?

[Soloist]

What I see is a gradual transition to Protestantism by Anabaptists. It begins by embracing "born again" Christianity and "Faith alone" and then naturally flows to de-emphasizing works and orthopraxis, deemphasizing community discernment in practical applications and embracing individual grace, fed by "PSA alone" which inexorably leads to OSAS and a gospel that is essentially eschatological, fed by conservative political preachers and protestant radio hosts, which leads to thinking the 2nd amendment is important, and self defense leads to embracing violence in government institutions (military/police), which leads to oaths etc etc. In the end, transitioning folks almost always end up Protestant of some sort (with a very few going Catholic or EO or Anglican)

How do we stop it?

Articulate a clear and compelling Anabaptist vision, that isn't afraid of modernity and education, that exalts Jesus as Lord, isn't judgmental, and that doesn't lose track of its own story.

It does get pretty confusing when Protestant doctrine gets mixed up with Anabaptist doctrine. Especially when it not very clear which is which.

[Josh]

What I see is a gradual transition to Protestantism by Anabaptists. It begins by embracing "born again" Christianity and "Faith alone"

Well of course it does Josh - how else could we convince ourselves “the Amish are not born again” and thus justify our “missions” to them?

and then naturally flows to de-emphasizing works and orthopraxis, deemphasizing community discernment in practical applications and embracing individual grace,

Well, of course - building new big buildings needs big wealth and big businesses, and too much orthopraxy would get in the way of that. It doesn’t work to scare off your best donors, especially ones that need to convince grandma and grandpa (or oma and opa, as the case may be) that they are still in a Mennonite church that doesn’t go to war.

fed by PSA which inexorably leads to OSAS and a gospel that is essentially eschatological,

Well, of course. That’s orthodox doctrine!

fed by conservative political preachers and protestant radio hosts, which leads to thinking the 2nd amendment is important, and self defense leads to embracing violence in government institutions (military/police), which leads to oaths etc etc.

How do we stop it?

You can’t because the Bible never says we can’t listen to the radio - that’s works!

Articulate a clear and compelling Anabaptist vision, that isn't afraid of modernity and education, that exalts Jesus as Lord, isn't judgmental, and that doesn't lose track of its own story.

Can you point to that actually working? People who embrace modernity and education are just as worldly.

Here’s a better idea:
- uphold good traditions like avoiding the radio
- consider new traditions that are needed, like prohibiting the Fox News app - has it ever led someone to greater spiritual peace and spread the gospel?
- show respect and perhaps seek advice from more conservative Anabaptist groups that don’t have this infiltration of the world in them

Going to college is not going to make people better Christians. If it did, EMU and Goshen would be cranking out faithful disciples.

[mike]

In my church, a congregation of Hope Mennonite Fellowship, my analysis came up with the following points of origin of our membership:

32% Hope Mennonite Fellowship
32% Washington/Franklin Mennonite Conference
12% Other Mennonite
8% Pilgrim Mennonite Conference
8% Eastern PA Mennonite Conference
4% Weaverland Mennonite Conference
4% Independent Mennonite

The only group that could possibly be said to have a more liberal origin than HMF could be the 4% from independent although that is even debatable on some points. The origin of all other persons would be from either more conservative or in the case of PMC similarly conservative.

So, I'm guessing this is a textbook example of a transitional church, when as much as 2/3 of the membership is from churches more conservative than the charter membership.

[joshuabgood]

Can you point to that actually working?

Nearly exactly 500 years ago it worked pretty well. Sattler, Grebel, Simons, et al articulated a compelling Anabaptist vision of discipleship and radically exalting and following Jesus' real teachings and example. They weren't afraid of education. They weren't judgmental. etc...

[Josh]

Can you point to that actually working?

Nearly exactly 500 years ago it worked pretty well. Sattler, Grebel, Simons, et al articulated a compelling Anabaptist vision of discipleship and radically exalting and following Jesus' real teachings and example. They weren't afraid of education. They weren't judgmental. etc...

Modernity and higher education were entirely different back then.

I would be more open to plain people seeking higher education, but every single one of my plain friends who did that isn’t plain anymore, and some aren’t Christian at all. So we don’t have much in common anymore.

My brother has a Bachelor’s and my sister in law has a doctorate. Neither of them see any value in academia for the Christian anymore. My parents both sport Master’s and one was a college professor. I myself was enmeshed in academia for years and absolutely nothing there got me any closer to Christ.

The story of the Anabaptist movement is of people leaving the pride and highmindedness of elite society and the academy and moving to a plain, simple, and modest life.

[joshuabgood]

Can you point to that actually working?

Nearly exactly 500 years ago it worked pretty well. Sattler, Grebel, Simons, et al articulated a compelling Anabaptist vision of discipleship and radically exalting and following Jesus' real teachings and example. They weren't afraid of education. They weren't judgmental. etc...

Modernity and higher education were entirely different back then.

I would be more open to plain people seeking higher education, but every single one of my plain friends who did that isn’t plain anymore, and some aren’t Christian at all. So we don’t have much in common anymore.

My brother has a Bachelor’s and my sister in law has a doctorate. Neither of them see any value in academia for the Christian anymore. My parents both sport Master’s and one was a college professor. I myself was enmeshed in academia for years and absolutely nothing there got me any closer to Christ.

The story of the Anabaptist movement is of people leaving the pride and high-mindedness of elite society and the academy and moving to a plain, simple, and modest life.

To be clear, I don't see education as necessary or sufficient for the Anabaptist vision. But I don't think we need to fear it...and a lack of good thinking can leave one open to, say, flat eartherism which a number of my formerly CA acquaintances have went for.

[Josh]

I do fear it, since all my friends who went that way have lost out, and I haven’t heard a good refutation of this problem. The academy seems to be very dangerous to a Christian’s faith.

The academy also promotes a lot of ideas that are identical to flat eartherism, such as belief that men evolved from a primordial “soup” rather than being created by God in his image, and that a man can choose to become a woman. These ideologies are just as bad as flat eartherism.

Everyone I know who got into a flat earth learned of it via time spent on social media. Plain people should fear social media and Facebook and Telegram groups as much as they do higher education; they are both expressions of the rotten evil that is modernity.

[Soloist]

I do fear it, since all my friends who went that way have lost out, and I haven’t heard a good refutation of this problem. The academy seems to be very dangerous to a Christian’s faith.

The academy also promotes a lot of ideas that are identical to flat eartherism, such as belief that men evolved from a primordial “soup” rather than being created by God in his image, and that a man can choose to become a woman. These ideologies are just as bad as flat eartherism.

Everyone I know who got into a flat earth learned of it via time spent on social media. Plain people should fear social media and Facebook and Telegram groups as much as they do higher education; they are both expressions of the rotten evil that is modernity.

I do wonder about these WhatsApp and cloudveil groups… I also wonder about Mennonet.

[Marylander]

How could Mennonites stop being transitional? The Holdeman's, Horning, Charity, Pilgrim should stop setting up camp in Old Order communities or in the case of Pilgrim, an Old Mennonite community. When John and Frances Herr along with John Holdeman in Ohio left the Old Mennonite church, it sowed a lot of confusion among the Mennonites.

[Marylander]

And guess what, Eastern is functioning just like the Holdeman's and Herrites in the 1800's and is pulling people in from the Old Colony Mennonites in Bolivia. It rhymes with history.