That will be a lot of buggies

[Valerie]

Here’s an even better solution: just buy a car.

It is interesting. I was sent a book one time on the reasons behind the different things that Amish forbid. As modern inventions would come out they would have councils to address these modern inventions to decide whether they would be for or against them. It was quite interesting to read their logic behind each of these inventions and their decisions. I could actually see the value and their reasonings against the cars and what they saw would be a problem.
At least they are not harming the environment for the most part. To a lot of observers, the Amish represent a people that were content and did not need modern inventions to be happy- when they look at the modern world and all of our cars, I don't think they see us as having the answers.

[Josh]

Here’s an even better solution: just buy a car.

It is interesting. I was sent a book one time on the reasons behind the different things that Amish forbid. As modern inventions would come out they would have councils to address these modern inventions to decide whether they would be for or against them. It was quite interesting to read their logic behind each of these inventions and their decisions. I could actually see the value and their reasonings against the cars and what they saw would be a problem.
At least they are not harming the environment for the most part. To a lot of observers, the Amish represent a people that were content and did not need modern inventions to be happy- when they look at the modern world and all of our cars, I don't think they see us as having the answers.

Well, e-bikes are a pretty modern invention to - except they get in accidents that are much more brutal than cars. They are basically exactly the same as motorcycles.

Note that many Amish groups are very much against e-bikes and I would predict that Amish groups that continue to embrace e-bikes will just go down the same Beachy / Charity trajectory (except perhaps with less spiritualising of the progression).

[justme]

Here’s an even better solution: just buy a car.

i see quite the slippery slope
walking to bicycle to e-bike to car
we all know what comes after the e-bike. why, its the sinful car.

coffee filter covering, to non see thru, to hanging veil, to doily, to nothing.
we all know where people will end up when they change their covering style. it's never good.

better stay away from buggies too. better just walk everywhere. no need for more than your own 2 feet. you'll end up w a car and cut hair and no covering if you start down the path of locomotion by something other than your own 2 feet.

[Valerie]

Here’s an even better solution: just buy a car.

It is interesting. I was sent a book one time on the reasons behind the different things that Amish forbid. As modern inventions would come out they would have councils to address these modern inventions to decide whether they would be for or against them. It was quite interesting to read their logic behind each of these inventions and their decisions. I could actually see the value and their reasonings against the cars and what they saw would be a problem.
At least they are not harming the environment for the most part. To a lot of observers, the Amish represent a people that were content and did not need modern inventions to be happy- when they look at the modern world and all of our cars, I don't think they see us as having the answers.

Well, e-bikes are a pretty modern invention to - except they get in accidents that are much more brutal than cars. They are basically exactly the same as motorcycles.

Note that many Amish groups are very much against e-bikes and I would predict that Amish groups that continue to embrace e-bikes will just go down the same Beachy / Charity trajectory (except perhaps with less spiritualising of the progression).

As i said, they "evaluate" modern inventions & approve or disapprove for whatever reason they see for or against.

Psalm 20:7 King James Version
Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the Lord our God.

I appreciate it the wisdom and what they saw as happening as families embraced the modern car. They could see how the family could become to independent of each other. Until more recently most work was done at the home by way of the farm or some type of business keeping the family together working together. Now with it being more difficult for an Amish family to survive as farmers they have looked to other means to support their families and that have done so quite successfully. Yet that presented the problem of getting to and from work. E-Bikes have been beneficial. We do see families out riding together a lot too. Having less buggies on the road & less hiring of drivers, E-bikes are an example of how they don't reject everything modern but will weigh in on each one to determine the wisdom for or against.

[Josh]

As i said, they "evaluate" modern inventions & approve or disapprove for whatever reason they see for or against.

Yet in this case there wasn't much evaluation - bicycles had already been allowed in the Old Order groups, and then people just started putting electric motors on them. It happened too fast for leadership to do anything about it, and is on the verge of causing some rather significant divisions.

Most notably, a certain alignment of the New Order Amish refuses to accept the e-bike nor driving tractors to town as a form of transportation and considers both to be a poor witness (particularly when breaking traffic laws).

Psalm 20:7 King James Version
Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the Lord our God.

I appreciate it the wisdom and what they saw as happening as families embraced the modern car. They could see how the family could become to independent of each other. Until more recently most work was done at the home by way of the farm or some type of business keeping the family together working together. Now with it being more difficult for an Amish family to survive as farmers they have looked to other means to support their families and that have done so quite successfully. Yet that presented the problem of getting to and from work. E-Bikes have been beneficial. We do see families out riding together a lot too. Having less buggies on the road & less hiring of drivers, E-bikes are an example of how they don't reject everything modern but will weigh in on each one to determine the wisdom for or against.

The Swartzentrubers are the fastest growing group yet they continue to farm, don't use e-bikes, and don't use drivers.

There is no benefit at all to using E-bikes which go as fast as cars.

The more conservative groups are now thinking they were right all along when they said the bicycle is a slippery slope and have mandated no bicycles and just simple scooters (with no motors), or no scooters or bicycles at all (like Swartzentrubers). Frankly, I would be surprised if people zipping around on e-bikes, wearing doily coverings, and hoodie sweatshirts are identifiably Amish in 20 years.

[ohio jones]

Here’s an even better solution: just buy a car.

i see quite the slippery slope
walking to bicycle to e-bike to car
we all know what comes after the e-bike. why, its the sinful car.

coffee filter covering, to non see thru, to hanging veil, to doily, to nothing.
we all know where people will end up when they change their covering style. it's never good.

better stay away from buggies too. better just walk everywhere. no need for more than your own 2 feet. you'll end up w a car and cut hair and no covering if you start down the path of locomotion by something other than your own 2 feet.

The Amish I grew up around had rather plain transportation; black buggies with no tops, just a big black umbrella in inclement weather. Reflective SMV signs, and after a few bad accidents they allowed a flashing red light on the back and a headlight on the front. A generation later the buggies started sprouting a small box on the back to keep the kids warm and dry. Now those kids have grown up and have fully enclosed buggies with multicolored flashing LED lights all over them, more decorated than a Christmas tree. Not sure if they have those yet or not.

The slippery slope in an area without any hills.

[Valerie]

As i said, they "evaluate" modern inventions & approve or disapprove for whatever reason they see for or against.

Yet in this case there wasn't much evaluation - bicycles had already been allowed in the Old Order groups, and then people just started putting electric motors on them. It happened too fast for leadership to do anything about it, and is on the verge of causing some rather significant divisions.

Most notably, a certain alignment of the New Order Amish refuses to accept the e-bike nor driving tractors to town as a form of transportation and considers both to be a poor witness (particularly when breaking traffic laws).

Psalm 20:7 King James Version
Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the Lord our God.

I appreciate it the wisdom and what they saw as happening as families embraced the modern car. They could see how the family could become to independent of each other. Until more recently most work was done at the home by way of the farm or some type of business keeping the family together working together. Now with it being more difficult for an Amish family to survive as farmers they have looked to other means to support their families and that have done so quite successfully. Yet that presented the problem of getting to and from work. E-Bikes have been beneficial. We do see families out riding together a lot too. Having less buggies on the road & less hiring of drivers, E-bikes are an example of how they don't reject everything modern but will weigh in on each one to determine the wisdom for or against.

The Swartzentrubers are the fastest growing group yet they continue to farm, don't use e-bikes, and don't use drivers.

There is no benefit at all to using E-bikes which go as fast as cars.

The more conservative groups are now thinking they were right all along when they said the bicycle is a slippery slope and have mandated no bicycles and just simple scooters (with no motors), or no scooters or bicycles at all (like Swartzentrubers). Frankly, I would be surprised if people zipping around on e-bikes, wearing doily coverings, and hoodie sweatshirts are identifiably Amish in 20 years.

I can't imagine that you don't realize until we and difficult to bicycle very far in Holmes county why an e-bike wouldn't be an advantage josh. If they can get themselves back and forth to work rather than hire drivers or arrived to work completely tired out and sweaty navigating Holmes county to get to work then surely there is a benefit. If you think it's only young people using the e-bikes you're wrong there's a lot of older people using the e-bikes that are Amish. Iif Swartzentrubers have the answers perhaps you can agree with bed courtship they allow too- Swartzentrubers grow by having 14 or so children, easier to keep to farms.

[Josh]

I can't imagine that you don't realize until we and difficult to bicycle very far in Holmes county why an e-bike wouldn't be an advantage josh.

Of course an e-bike makes it easier to travel. But so does a car.

Pretty much the entire Amish identity is centered around not using powered vehicles, particularly cars and motorcycles.

If they can get themselves back and forth to work rather than hire drivers or arrived to work completely tired out and sweaty navigating Holmes county to get to work then surely there is a benefit.

Well, Amish have been in Holmes County now for a century. Of course, many Amish have decided to get motorcycles and cars - but then they aren't Amish anymore.

If you think it's only young people using the e-bikes you're wrong there's a lot of older people using the e-bikes that are Amish.

I'm quite aware of who rides e-bikes; the example I cited earlier (of people not obeying the rules of the road and refusing to signal when turning left) were older people. I think that if Amish or soon-to-be-ex-Amish want to use powered cars and motorcycles, they need to be properly registered, insured, licenced, and they need to follow the rules of the road including things like proper turn signals.

Iif Swartzentrubers have the answers perhaps you can agree with bed courtship they allow too- Swartzentrubers grow by having 14 or so children, easier to keep to farms.

I simply said they seem to have no trouble earning a living and in fact are busy expanding into new districts, and they do it all without bicycles, e-bikes, or cars.

I personally drive a car. I don't have a horse in this race. If I'm not mistaken, you drive a car too. I have no objection if Amish people want to stop being Amish and be part of a religious group that does drive cars.

But I think there needs to be some honesty when Amish people are becoming non-Amish and are acquiring motorised, mechanised transportation and the responsibilities, risks, and challenges that entails. Personally owned, high-speed (45 MPH) transportation fundamentally changes what it means to be Amish and what Amish culture is.

[Ken]

But I think there needs to be some honesty when Amish people are becoming non-Amish and are acquiring motorised, mechanised transportation and the responsibilities, risks, and challenges that entails. Personally owned, high-speed (45 MPH) transportation fundamentally changes what it means to be Amish and what Amish culture is.

It's not an issue of honesty. It's an issue of regulation. In this country we do a very poor job of accommodating and regulating all modes of transport that fall in between pedestrians and automobiles. In rural areas there probably isn't all that much to be done except learn to share the roads. There are just too many old country roads and too little population density to actually make any practical changes.

But in urban areas we can certainly do a better job of making it safer and more practical for other road users that fall in between cars and pedestrians. That's not just bikes but all the other newer battery powered devices that are coming out. In most cities the biggest obstacle is that we have devoted so much road and street space to free car storage that we don't have enough room for anyone else. Most of our roads and streets were not originally built for cars. They were built for a multi-modal mix of users. But over time cars have just taken them over. Just like I imagine that nearly every country road in Holmes County was originally built for horse and buggy and cars have just taken them over too.

But the Amish are just a tiny microcosm. Around here there are no Amish but we still have a growing fleet of e-bikes, scooters, one-wheels, and all the other battery powered devices that keep getting invented as battery technology improves. We need to figure out how to safely accommodate and regulate them.

[Valerie]

I can't imagine that you don't realize until we and difficult to bicycle very far in Holmes county why an e-bike wouldn't be an advantage josh.

Of course an e-bike makes it easier to travel. But so does a car.

Pretty much the entire Amish identity is centered around not using powered vehicles, particularly cars and motorcycles.

If they can get themselves back and forth to work rather than hire drivers or arrived to work completely tired out and sweaty navigating Holmes county to get to work then surely there is a benefit.

Well, Amish have been in Holmes County now for a century. Of course, many Amish have decided to get motorcycles and cars - but then they aren't Amish anymore.

If you think it's only young people using the e-bikes you're wrong there's a lot of older people using the e-bikes that are Amish.

I'm quite aware of who rides e-bikes; the example I cited earlier (of people not obeying the rules of the road and refusing to signal when turning left) were older people. I think that if Amish or soon-to-be-ex-Amish want to use powered cars and motorcycles, they need to be properly registered, insured, licenced, and they need to follow the rules of the road including things like proper turn signals.

Iif Swartzentrubers have the answers perhaps you can agree with bed courtship they allow too- Swartzentrubers grow by having 14 or so children, easier to keep to farms.

I simply said they seem to have no trouble earning a living and in fact are busy expanding into new districts, and they do it all without bicycles, e-bikes, or cars.

I personally drive a car. I don't have a horse in this race. If I'm not mistaken, you drive a car too. I have no objection if Amish people want to stop being Amish and be part of a religious group that does drive cars.

But I think there needs to be some honesty when Amish people are becoming non-Amish and are acquiring motorised, mechanised transportation and the responsibilities, risks, and challenges that entails. Personally owned, high-speed (45 MPH) transportation fundamentally changes what it means to be Amish and what Amish culture is.

ALL Anabaptist sects are divided by their differences of opinions of Church Standards.this slippery slope concern is understandable BUT these ordinances & the Ordnung are decided by each Church. I understand their value but it also gives a reputation of "another gospel".

People i know who left Old Order or other Strict Old Order did so not to "enjoy" worldly pursuits but because they felt the rules did not make sense from a Gospel standpoint.