Does the "Charity Church" really exist anymore?

[Josh]

What is RNC?

I believe you used to be the president of that denomination’s Bible school.

I've been disconnected with the Charity Movement for about 10 years now, but had regular contact with them for about 20 years prior (including attending Charity in Leola for a while), and I never remember Charity churches being defined by "abandoning coverings, women wearing pants, voting, carrying firearms, etc." If this is true it is a radical shift in direction, since the movement historically stood pretty strongly against most of these things.

Yes, it is quite a radical shift. For example, at Finger coverings are optional during the week (or on Sundays); women wear pants during the week; at River of Life, women wore cosmetics as of several years ago and it is normal to watch new Hollywood movies.

Likewise involvement in politics (usually of the Fox News right wing clickbait variety) and concealed carry of handguns is now normal and accepted.

In a very real sense, the Charity movement is evolving upon a near identical trajectory to the RNC (which you may have known as the CMC).

[ohio jones]

What is RNC?

Josh, please refer to us as RNOC.

[Josh]

What is RNC?

Josh, please refer to us as RNOC.

Can we compromise on RNoC?

[ohio jones]

What is RNC?

Josh, please refer to us as RNOC.

Can we compromise on RNoC?

That's okay I guess. Thanks.

[Valerie]

I should have said, Over the time that "the Charity movement" imploded... I'm not sure what actually happened at Charity Leola.

It split into Charity CF and Ephrata CF. I only know people nowadays who would attend the latter.

Overall, the Charity movement now is similar to the liberal end of RNC - it seems to accommodate people with last names of Yoder who wish to abandon coverings, have women wear pants, vote, carry firearms, etc. but don’t want to have women preachers.

Interestingly the more liberal Beachy congregations around here have women wearing tiny doily type coverings almost identical to what was in vogue in CMC a decade or two ago. Which begs the question of why not just affiliate with RNC already instead of forming the new ADC organisation.

What is RNC?

I've been disconnected with the Charity Movement for about 10 years now, but had regular contact with them for about 20 years prior (including attending Charity in Leola for a while), and I never remember Charity churches being defined by "abandoning coverings, women wearing pants, voting, carrying firearms, etc." If this is true it is a radical shift in direction, since the movement historically stood pretty strongly against most of these things.

It's shocking to me to read this description of Charity Christian fellowship. When we sought it out probably 11 years ago they were extremely conservative, all the women were veils no one of the women wore pants they encourage making your own clothes or buying them from thrift stores it was anything but liberal so how this change came about so rapidly I can't even imagine.

We met with one of the pastors of Charity Christian fellowship years ago. Besides that we met a couple that were former Amish an older couple with 10 kids and they introduced us to the Charity affiliations in Ohio one was in Berlin one was in Cambridge and I can't remember the other one but they would get together the three churches in Ohio but all considered themselves affiliated with Charity at the time and they too were very conservative with veils dresses only pretty plain looking really.

[mike]

Overall, the Charity movement now is similar to the liberal end of RNC - it seems to accommodate people with last names of Yoder who wish to abandon coverings, have women wear pants, vote, carry firearms, etc. but don’t want to have women preachers.

Interestingly the more liberal Beachy congregations around here have women wearing tiny doily type coverings almost identical to what was in vogue in CMC a decade or two ago. Which begs the question of why not just affiliate with RNC already instead of forming the new ADC organisation.

The once Charity affiliated church next door to me hasn't abandoned head covering yet, but based on what fits the bill as a head covering, my guess is it will be gone at some point. The women aren't allowed to wear pants that I know of. Some might vote. I don't know of any folks that carry firearms. They would probably be against women preachers.

So they aren't what you describe entirely but might be on that trajectory. Not sure.

My general feeling about churches like this, which appear to be on an intersecting course with your average nondenominational evangelical/protestant/charismatic/contemporary church, is that they are kind of a waste of time. It would make more sense to me to just join an evangelical church if that is what one intends to be. I am clearly far from alone in feeling this way, as many of their members have done just that over the past 10-20 years.

[Josh]

At the core of the Charity movement seemed to be that they largely recruited from sources like Amish people (or other similar cases, like a church somewhere up in Idaho or the Dakotas, I think, that is largely ex-Hutterites). So they take in people who are very conservative/plain and then set up a church that is less conservative and plain. After 10-20 years, they become less and less conservative/plain.

For a seeker, this doesn't make much sense to us. If we want to be worldly, well, we all "start" worldly. There are plenty of churches which are frankly more comfortable for a seeker like myself than trying to "fit in" to a church that is all ex-Amish. None of us are going to have a "testimony" of being "set free" from legalism of plain clothes or suspenders etc., for example.

For an example of an "old school" Charity church - there is one firing up in Liberty, KY that is like Charity was 20 years ago (complete with listening to Denny Kenaston's old teachings). They are busy recruiting from horse and buggy type people, and from what I understand, have nearly completed "converting" Caneyville Christian Community into a Charity-type church. They are quite confident that they will be maintaining their suspenders and "double layer garment", and somehow think they will be different than the trajectory that, well, every single other Charity church went on over the last 20 years. And, of course, the first thing they do with a plain group is encourage them to get cars and start listening to recordings of Denny Kenaston teaching. It's truly quite a sight to behold.

[Soloist]

For an example of an "old school" Charity church - there is one firing up in Liberty, KY that is like Charity was 20 years ago (complete with listening to Denny Kenaston's old teachings). They are busy recruiting from horse and buggy type people, and from what I understand, have nearly completed "converting" Caneyville Christian Community into a Charity-type church. They are quite confident that they will be maintaining their suspenders and "double layer garment", and somehow think they will be different than the trajectory that, well, every single other Charity church went on over the last 20 years. And, of course, the first thing they do with a plain group is encourage them to get cars and start listening to recordings of Denny Kenaston teaching. It's truly quite a sight to behold.

Sounds an awful lot like Eastern saying any church that starts using opaque coverings will switch to the veil and then eventually drop it.

[Josh]

For an example of an "old school" Charity church - there is one firing up in Liberty, KY that is like Charity was 20 years ago (complete with listening to Denny Kenaston's old teachings). They are busy recruiting from horse and buggy type people, and from what I understand, have nearly completed "converting" Caneyville Christian Community into a Charity-type church. They are quite confident that they will be maintaining their suspenders and "double layer garment", and somehow think they will be different than the trajectory that, well, every single other Charity church went on over the last 20 years. And, of course, the first thing they do with a plain group is encourage them to get cars and start listening to recordings of Denny Kenaston teaching. It's truly quite a sight to behold.

Sounds an awful lot like Eastern saying any church that starts using opaque coverings will switch to the veil and then eventually drop it.

Well... are they wrong? Because that does seem to be the trajectory. At some point, there needs to be a sense of honesty about the real reason people are pushing for changes.

[Soloist]

Well... are they wrong? Because that does seem to be the trajectory. At some point, there needs to be a sense of honesty about the real reason people are pushing for changes.

That’s assuming that the motive to use opaque or any other change is self seeking.
Not all change is bad and we know that all the conservative churches has changed dramatically since the break with the general conference.