Individual in question is now home with his family. To say that the situation went sideways is an understatement. The church paid big money to rehabilitate him. Not a good situation from my immediate understanding.
Wasn't planning to offer that info up, but there it is.
There are lots of these programs (Green Pastures, Pure Life, Fresh Start, etc.) that seem to have very poor "success rates". Often the person seems successful but after a few years is reoffending again.
My personal opinion is that addicts should be put in work camps, and can work towards their freedom (using their work to repay and make restitution to every person they wronged and harmed). If they reoffend, they go back to the camp.
My personal opinion is that addicts should be put in work camps, and can work towards their freedom (using their work to repay and make restitution to every person they wronged and harmed). If they reoffend, they go back to the camp.
Now I disagree. That's just harsh, especially if it involves substance abuse. Many are trying self medicate an underlying problem. Not all, but many.
My personal opinion is that addicts should be put in work camps, and can work towards their freedom (using their work to repay and make restitution to every person they wronged and harmed). If they reoffend, they go back to the camp.
Now I disagree. That's just harsh, especially if it involves substance abuse. Many are trying self medicate an underlying problem. Not all, but many.
The alternative is prison which seems even worse. Of course in either prison (or my proposed work camps), one problem is they might keep smuggling drugs in. And be around bad influences.
Most people that go through a rehab facility are doing so to appease a spouse, family or a judge. They go through the motions and figure they've served their "sentence."
steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:53 am
Most people that go through a rehab facility are doing so to appease a spouse, family or a judge. They go through the motions and figure they've served their "sentence."
I have yet to see it work even a single time. AA, on the other hand, is a much better idea... at some point I'll find the spare time go to AA again.
S used cocaine. He got saved, now he is a preacher.
J abused alcohol. She met the Lord and has been sober for 3 years.
J was on Crystal Meth. He has become a believer. He has been clean and sharing his faith for 12 years.
E was from a Christian family. She got into alcohol. She came to the Lord and has been sober since 2008 and is raising a nice family with her believing husband who also used alcohol.
T is just a kid. She lived on the streets on alcohol and anything else she could find. She went to a Christian treatment program and has been clean for 6 weeks. She prays for us.
M used alcohol and marijuana for years. He got saved. He is leading educational programs for youth.
N was addicted to porn. He met Jesus in a training program and has been clean since.
Just a few of my friends.
Where did God fearing people become as hopeless as you all sound?
When did Jesus stop saving sinners?
Whats your testimony?
Were you less lost than any other addict or troubled person?
flyingnorm wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 12:14 am
Just a few of my friends.
Where did God fearing people become as hopeless as you all sound?
I have a lot of hope in Jesus. I don't have much hope in rehab facilities, however.
When did Jesus stop saving sinners?
Whats your testimony?
Were you less lost than any other addict or troubled person?
Well, I used to be a borderline alcoholic before I became a Christian. After I was born again I struggled a lot less, but I did occasionally fall back into it. Since I became a committed baptised church member I have never gone near the stuff again.
flyingnorm wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 4:40 pm
A lot of addicts gain a lot of help through treatment programs they choose to enroll in.
Very few addicts find healing and change because someone else decided they need to.
An issue to explore is Why are conservative anabaptists churches thinking they can make these kinds of decisions for an addict?
Is it tied to the other decisions being made by the church?
Are we crippling people instead of empowering them to choose well?
Should we not be operating programs like Celebrate Recovery for our people and the surrounding community?
Do we think we are excempt from these needs?
Sunk costs.
Churches and organizations within church denominations invest in facilities and careers and approaches. Often they are the life’s work or pet project of certain people with pull. This isn’t just an Anabaptist thing.
And then when someone within your family or church community is struggling with addiction or mental health issues or whatever, there is pressure to channel them into those existing avenues for treatment whether it is appropriate in that instance or not. And a discouragement to shop around and explore other options and ideas.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
flyingnorm wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 12:14 am
S used cocaine. He got saved, now he is a preacher.
J abused alcohol. She met the Lord and has been sober for 3 years.
J was on Crystal Meth. He has become a believer. He has been clean and sharing his faith for 12 years.
E was from a Christian family. She got into alcohol. She came to the Lord and has been sober since 2008 and is raising a nice family with her believing husband who also used alcohol.
T is just a kid. She lived on the streets on alcohol and anything else she could find. She went to a Christian treatment program and has been clean for 6 weeks. She prays for us.
M used alcohol and marijuana for years. He got saved. He is leading educational programs for youth.
N was addicted to porn. He met Jesus in a training program and has been clean since.
Just a few of my friends.
Where did God fearing people become as hopeless as you all sound?
When did Jesus stop saving sinners?
Whats your testimony?
Were you less lost than any other addict or troubled person?
^^i’m glad you shared this.
after reading, i found this post you wrote in 2020, which i think is pertinent to the topic.
flyingnorm wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 12:41 am
That cult like dynamic is what I referred to as the tribe in my original post. I personally would rather use the word tribe as it is more descriptive of an ethnic people group as opposed to a cult which describes a fringe or heretic religious group.
The majority of present day Anabaptists are a diverse group of descendants of diverse European ethnic group with a shared spiritual history. Our diversity today partially stems back to tribal diversities in Europe.
The crisis of faith I referred in my original post are exposed in this thread.
1. Faith that equates the worship of the Living God with raising corn and chickens. No Jesus did have a farm, he borrowed fish and bread and corn when he was hungry.
2. Faith that is percieved to be so fragile it needs to be cloistered and protected from a much more powerful evil world. Yes Jesus ate with thieves and talked with prostitutes and did not have immoral relations with them, he delivered them from evil. He overcame the evil world by offering good.
3. Probably in this order.
I had the priviledge of having a meeting with an old order amishman. He explained his vision for outreach to drug addicts.
He said he sees his role is to be an amish man standing next to and supporting a tatooed recovering drug addict or gang member.
He is fully committed to his amish disciplines, and refuses to be closed minded, self serving, and isolated.
I think this guy has a picture of Gods plan for the church.
Born again believers interacting with struggling sinners for their redemption. Ignoring ethnic and religious boundaries for the purpose of Christ. Showing hurting sinners how to live for God in a fallen and broken world. Yes its hard. Yes its our calling. Yes anything short of that is failure and unfaithfulness to our heavenly father. Yes we miss the mark and our Heavenly Father helps us get up and try again.
You might not live next to a gang member or drug addict.
It might be the young person in church that needs a word of encouragement from you. That might prevent the failed marriage, the alcoholic, the broken life.
I had the priviledge of talking to a young couple this evening. 20 years old, unmarried, living together, expecting first child, homeless, unemployed, nearly penniless, marginalized people group, wanting to get started on their own in life.
What is does true evangelical faith do?
In my mind, the better we answer the question, the less we have a crisis of faith.
