temporal1 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 11:15 pm
DanZ / Death Penalty viewtopic.php?t=4152
The death penalty is discussed on MN, and in scriptures, in various “applications.”
Once [One] can also argue that the Bible calls for the death penalty for people who divorce and remarry. ..
This isn’t “my” topic, i get too hung up on the vast numbers, sins+crimes involved in for-profit abortion, the death penalty via for-profit abortion makes the rest of it pale in comparison, i don’t think too much about it. (i hate it and i’m thankful not to be directly involved with any decision making about it.) i don’t hate it more or less due to particular sins, crimes, people groups, or whether it’s individual or institutional death penalty.
my post above was merely to reflect the topic is discussed/debated on MN. nothing more.
HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 11:38 pm
If queers were so afraid of a reactionary backlash and were LITERALLY. DYING. IN. THE. STREETS. Wouldn’t it be strange for them to publicly announce to America that they were coming for the children?
More than 600 LGBT people have been killed in the US over the past two decades in hate killings (targeted for death specifically because they were LGBT) https://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2 ... 670264002/ and that figure was from 2018. The number has escalated since then
On the other hand, you have people availing themselves of their CONSTITUTIONAL right to assemble, have marches, and say whatever they want to even if some find it offensive. Is that the equivalence you are making?
Let's start woth the OT.
Show me where God ever allowed same sex relationships and/or marriage?
Adultery in the OT is having sex with another's spouse, worthy of stoping to death yes.
Ken wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 1:01 am
More than 600 LGBT people have been killed in the US over the past two decades in hate killings (targeted for death specifically because they were LGBT) https://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2 ... 670264002/ and that figure was from 2018. The number has escalated since then
On the other hand, you have people availing themselves of their CONSTITUTIONAL right to assemble, have marches, and say whatever they want to even if some find it offensive. Is that the equivalence you are making?
If LGBT people are being profiled and the victims of hate crimes, you would think they would have the ability to understand that some of their actions, words, and dress (or undress) serves as only to incite hate crimes against them. Yes, they have the right to chant about coming after the nations children (grooming), march in the streets with men exposing themselves to children, dressed in hideous clothes, and engage in other repulsive actions. And no, there is never an excuse to commit hate crimes against other human beings, but the LGBT community is not doing itself any favors when they act uncivilized and against social norms. They don't help their cause either when they openly mock the millions of Catholics in this nation. https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... te-capitol
And no matter if one is heterosexual or homosexual, men exposing themselves is against the law. Yet if a gay man exposes himself, they are not arrested for indecent exposure. Which proves the point that the LGTB community doesn't want the same rights as everyone else, (which they have at this point). They want special rights over and above the rest of American citizens.
Ken wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:08 pm
So since they aren't an ethnic group it's OK then?
And you think it's GAY people who have lost their moral compass?
Stop calling it “genocide”.
Engaging in homosexual activity is a choice, just like fornication is. Being part of an ethnic group like Jews or Armenians is not a choice. Those people were killed simply because of who their parents were.
Whereas sodomy laws are about behaviour. Anyone can choose not to engage in sexual activity (not talking about sexual assaults etc obviously).
Ken wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 1:16 am
It is right there, two sentences away from the verse in Leviticus that people use to justify killing gay people. Curious how people aren't quite so eager to round up and kill straight people who have divorced and remarried. But is the same exact chapter in Leviticus.
The NT never directly refers to adultery as being worthy of death like Romans 1 states, although obviously it is a death sin that results in both spiritual and eventual literal death. And yes, it has been a capital crime and still is in some places.
Nonetheless, the OT explicitly allows D&R and doesn’t describe it as a capital offence.
Szdfan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 1:52 pm
If queers really wanted to “groom” and “recruit” children, wouldn’t it be strange for them to publicly announce it like some sort of mustache-twirling monologuing James Bond villain?
If queers were so afraid of a reactionary backlash and were LITERALLY. DYING. IN. THE. STREETS. Wouldn’t it be strange for them to publicly announce to America that they were coming for the children?
I’m not sure how to respond, because it seems like you’re minimizing the fears that a lot of LGBTQ people are dealing with because they they are being targeted. I’m not aware of anyone saying that they are literally dying in the streets, but forcing queer people back into the closet will have significant consequences. Queer teenagers are much more likely to commit suicide than their straight peers and a lot of it has to do with the stigma and animus they encounter.
I think the chant was intended satirically and I think it was poor judgment.
Are they being targeted? By whom and in what ways? What do you mean by being forced back into closets? Suicide is tragic but it's not a result of fear for one's life and is much more nuanced than outlets like The Trevor Project would have us believe.
My original post was in reference to this:
which is emblematic of a lot of the pathos-driven arguments I read about "queer lives"
I think these fears you say are endemic to the LGBTQ community are baseless and generally, though not always, disconnected from reality. The reality is, Queerness is celebrated by nearly every institution, public and private in the United States in the year 2023. Every major urban center celebrates Pride and being openly queer is both lauded and a potential leg up in society ex. see: Rachel Levine
HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 11:38 pm
If queers were so afraid of a reactionary backlash and were LITERALLY. DYING. IN. THE. STREETS. Wouldn’t it be strange for them to publicly announce to America that they were coming for the children?
More than 600 LGBT people have been killed in the US over the past two decades in hate killings (targeted for death specifically because they were LGBT) https://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2 ... 670264002/ and that figure was from 2018. The number has escalated since then
On the other hand, you have people availing themselves of their CONSTITUTIONAL right to assemble, have marches, and say whatever they want to even if some find it offensive. Is that the equivalence you are making?
Calm down, Ken. So out of a population of 20 million LGBTQ folk there are, on average 30 of them killed a year - that may or may not be motivated by animus towards their sexuality or trans-ness. Tragic as that is, it's not exactly a genocide nor is it the reality most LGBTQ folk actually live with. Privileged teens and college kids, living in one of the queer-friendliest places on earth have little to fear in terms of real-life consequences' for being queer. They can chant whatever they want, and they do. I was pointing out that if life were truly so dangerous for them, if they truly feared a regression to 1950's closeted-ness, if the backlash were actually anything beyond banning pornographic books in deep red states; they'd probably think twice about chanting about other people's children. Their brazenness belies their claims to fear.
HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 11:38 pm
If queers were so afraid of a reactionary backlash and were LITERALLY. DYING. IN. THE. STREETS. Wouldn’t it be strange for them to publicly announce to America that they were coming for the children?
More than 600 LGBT people have been killed in the US over the past two decades in hate killings (targeted for death specifically because they were LGBT) https://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2 ... 670264002/ and that figure was from 2018. The number has escalated since then
On the other hand, you have people availing themselves of their CONSTITUTIONAL right to assemble, have marches, and say whatever they want to even if some find it offensive. Is that the equivalence you are making?
Calm down, Ken. So out of a population of 20 million LGBTQ folk there are, on average 30 of them killed a year - that may or may not be motivated by animus towards their sexuality or trans-ness. Tragic as that is, it's not exactly a genocide nor is it the reality most LGBTQ folk actually live with. Privileged teens and college kids, living in one of the queer-friendliest places on earth have little to fear in terms of real-life consequences' for being queer. They can chant whatever they want, and they do. I was pointing out that if life were truly so dangerous for them, if they truly feared a regression to 1950's closeted-ness, if the backlash were actually anything beyond banning pornographic books in deep red states; they'd probably think twice about chanting about other people's children. Their brazenness belies their claims to fear.
I'm perfectly calm. Those were all examples of documented hate crimes, not just some LGBT person getting killed in a random act of violence or some personal conflict unrelated to their sexuality. The number is MUCH higher if you count violence that could of been LGBT-hate related but for which there was insufficient evidence to prosecute or a perpetrator wasn't caught.
And yes, many gay people do still live cautious closeted lives because they do fear public, professional, and family backlash. And yes, even violence. They are not the young ones living in places like San Francisco who are being flamboyant and provocative. There isn't one big LGBT union where the gay board of directors decides on some public relations message for all gays to follow. You know that as well as I do. So there isn't some "THEY" (to use your phrase) that decides things for the gays. It is millions of individuals all making their own decisions and disagreeing about everything just like everyone else.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Ken you honestly believe LGBTQ being flamboyant & provocative is limited to San Francisco? That may have been more true 30 years ago but you must have not been paying attention to what's happening around the country. Various marches in various places with evil behavior and indecency.
Haters of God, haters of what is good.
And then infiltrating the church with not the Apostles Creed, or Nicene Creed but
More than 600 LGBT people have been killed in the US over the past two decades in hate killings (targeted for death specifically because they were LGBT) https://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2 ... 670264002/ and that figure was from 2018. The number has escalated since then
On the other hand, you have people availing themselves of their CONSTITUTIONAL right to assemble, have marches, and say whatever they want to even if some find it offensive. Is that the equivalence you are making?
Calm down, Ken. So out of a population of 20 million LGBTQ folk there are, on average 30 of them killed a year - that may or may not be motivated by animus towards their sexuality or trans-ness. Tragic as that is, it's not exactly a genocide nor is it the reality most LGBTQ folk actually live with. Privileged teens and college kids, living in one of the queer-friendliest places on earth have little to fear in terms of real-life consequences' for being queer. They can chant whatever they want, and they do. I was pointing out that if life were truly so dangerous for them, if they truly feared a regression to 1950's closeted-ness, if the backlash were actually anything beyond banning pornographic books in deep red states; they'd probably think twice about chanting about other people's children. Their brazenness belies their claims to fear.
I'm perfectly calm. Those were all examples of documented hate crimes, not just some LGBT person getting killed in a random act of violence or some personal conflict unrelated to their sexuality. The number is MUCH higher if you count violence that could of been LGBT-hate related but for which there was insufficient evidence to prosecute or a perpetrator wasn't caught.
And yes, many gay people do still live cautious closeted lives because they do fear public, professional, and family backlash. And yes, even violence. They are not the young ones living in places like San Francisco who are being flamboyant and provocative. There isn't one big LGBT union where the gay board of directors decides on some public relations message for all gays to follow. You know that as well as I do. So there isn't some "THEY" (to use your phrase) that decides things for the gays. It is millions of individuals all making their own decisions and disagreeing about everything just like everyone else.
How do you know “many gay people live cautious closeted lives…”? That’s not my experience nor does it jive with a perusal of the culture in 2023. Gosh, that doesn’t even jive with a perusal of Honduras in 2023.
I’m sure there are some LGBTQ folk that are closeted for this or that reason, and I’m sure some have realistic fears of violence. I’m simply dubious about your assertion that it’s “many” which seems intentionally vague to make a point.
At the risk of repeating myself, the brazenness of the drag March in NYC, belies the assertion that “The current threat against the LGBTQ community is worse than when the mass shooting occurred at the Pulse nightclub…” and that “Our kids are not safe. Our trans siblings are not safe walking down the street”