Global Warning/Climate Change

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
Ken
Posts: 21863
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Ken »

Valerie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 8:56 amGlobal warming which has changed to Climate Change seems political, and agenda motivated and lacks recognition of weather patterns
The term "Climate Change" was popularized by Republican pollster Frank Luntz in 2001 when he advised the Bush Administration to reframe the language from Global Warming to "Climate Change" because it sounded less threatening. It was an effort to beat back climate measures at the time. So yes, there was politics involved in the language. He has since changed his tune: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luntz
On July 25, 2019, Luntz spoke in front of the United States House Select Committee on the Climate Crisis where he shared his advice to people pushing for action on the climate crisis. Furthermore, he stated that "I'm here before you to say that I was wrong in 2001", "That was a lifetime ago", and "I've changed." He promised to help the Democrats on the climate committee, provided that they put "policies ahead of politics" and commit to nonpartisan solutions. He had his change of heart after a wildfire, the Skirball Fire, threatened and forced him to evacuate his home in 2017.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Josh

Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Josh »

There is no “climate crisis” nor is there “global warming”.

Cities are uncomfortable hot places that spew pollution but they are a tiny fraction of the planet. Most “global warming” measured is due to thermometers near urban heat islands.
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ken_sylvania

Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by ken_sylvania »

Ken wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 11:11 am
Valerie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 8:56 amGlobal warming which has changed to Climate Change seems political, and agenda motivated and lacks recognition of weather patterns
The term "Climate Change" was popularized by Republican pollster Frank Luntz in 2001 when he advised the Bush Administration to reframe the language from Global Warming to "Climate Change" because it sounded less threatening. It was an effort to beat back climate measures at the time. So yes, there was politics involved in the language. He has since changed his tune: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luntz
On July 25, 2019, Luntz spoke in front of the United States House Select Committee on the Climate Crisis where he shared his advice to people pushing for action on the climate crisis. Furthermore, he stated that "I'm here before you to say that I was wrong in 2001", "That was a lifetime ago", and "I've changed." He promised to help the Democrats on the climate committee, provided that they put "policies ahead of politics" and commit to nonpartisan solutions. He had his change of heart after a wildfire, the Skirball Fire, threatened and forced him to evacuate his home in 2017.
In other words, his change of heart had nothing to do with a rational examination of the scientific data.
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Josh

Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Josh »

California has had wildfires for as long as we have any records about it; many species (some of them endangered) actually can only reproduce and thrive when wildfires periodically happen.

The only “climate change” that would prevent CA wildfires is either turning into a desert so dry no trees can grow anymore, or else becoming so cold and rainy that it looks like more like tundra and thus can’t burn.

Man’s hubris is to build where God ordained there will be fires. Many places in California don’t have fires either. Stop trying to build homes and live where wildfires routinely rage.

(As a reminder, the initial spark that lit the Skirball fire was “homeless” people at an illegal encampment on public property who lit an illegal campfire.)
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Ken
Posts: 21863
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Ken »

MaxPC wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 2:14 am Per usual, Ken misinterprets, misconstrues and attacks others who hold a different view than his own sense of infallibility. Hence another round on the ban bench. Ken does not know how to respect other viewpoints and continues to malign those held by others by twisting narratives. These are not the actions of a civil individual. Dust shaken.
Do you even listen to yourself?

You come her to this thread and accuse climate scientists of acting in bad faith and having political motives other than science. Of producing tainted and biased data out of self-interest and profit. And of being increasingly driven by politics rather than science. By extension you are also attacking anyone who shares their concerns. Those are your actual words a few posts up. Are those the actions of a civil individual?

But when anyone asks whether you, yourself are being intellectually consistent you claim you are being deliberately misinterpreted and misconstrued in an uncivil manner.

So you claim it is God and not humans who control the weather? What do you define as weather? The sun? the rain? the wind? the temperature?

In the 1960s the Soviets diverted rivers in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan for massive irrigation projects that resulted in the deliberate drying of the Aral Sea (then the 4th largest lake in the world), turning it into a desert. As a result, drought and toxic windstorms have swept the region. Water supplies have been destroyed from salt deposition carried by windstorms, rainfall has diminished due to interruptions in the water cycle, regional wind patterns have shifted without the lake effect, and temperatures ranges have broadened in the region by between 10 and 25 degrees F due to desertification. Is God causing all those changes in the weather or is that humans?

Today the Great Salt Lake in Utah is rapidly diminishing because humans are diverting massive amounts of water for agriculture and suburban development (green lawns in the desert). The effects are expected to be similar to what happened with the Aral Sea. When rainfall drops, wind patterns change, and toxic clouds of arsenic and mercury dust from the dry lake bed envelop Salt Lake City will that be God's doing? Or the result of human activity?

In the 1970s and 1980s the protective layer of ozone in the earth's atmosphere began to be depleted and holes in the ozone layer appeared over Antarctica and the southern hemisphere. This was attributed to pollution from chlorofluorocarbons and other ozone-depleting air pollutants. My wife was a child in Chile at the time and children had to be restricted from playing outside during the summers and use heavy sunscreen due to the increased UV radiation. In recent decades, worldwide restrictions on the use of chlorofluorocarbons and other ozone-depleting chemicals have reversed this trend. Did God make the sunlight more deadly in the southern hemisphere and then reverse course, or was that humans?

In the 1970s and 1980s rainfall in the northeast became increasingly acidic (acid rain). This was attributed to sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide emissions from coal fired powerplants. Congress amended the Clean Air act in the 1990s to reduce powerplant emissions and pH of many streams and lakes has returned to more healthy levels. Did God make the rain more acidic or was that the actions of humans?

Around the world's oceans, coral reefs and other marine organisms like oysters that rely on calcium carbonate for their shells and skeletons are become more stressed and in some cases dying off. This is because excess carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is being absorbed into the oceans where it reacts with sea water to form carbonic acid. And carbonic acid locks up dissolved carbonate ions meaning that marine organisms have less carbonate available to build their shells and skeletons. Is God doing this? or is it the actions of humans?

We can keep going and going if you want.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
ohio jones

Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by ohio jones »

Ken wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 12:24 pm
MaxPC wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 2:14 am Per usual, Ken misinterprets, misconstrues and attacks others who hold a different view than his own sense of infallibility. Hence another round on the ban bench. Ken does not know how to respect other viewpoints and continues to malign those held by others by twisting narratives. These are not the actions of a civil individual. Dust shaken.
Do you even listen to yourself?

You come her to this thread and accuse climate scientists of acting in bad faith and having political motives other than science. Of producing tainted and biased data out of self-interest and profit. And of being increasingly driven by politics rather than science. By extension you are also attacking anyone who shares their concerns. Those are your actual words a few posts up. Are those the actions of a civil individual?

But when anyone asks whether you, yourself are being intellectually consistent you claim you are being deliberately misinterpreted and misconstrued in an uncivil manner.
Do not state someone else is wrong. State your own thoughts and opinions.

Warnings issued to both of you. This is the Global Warning thread, after all.
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JimFoxvog

Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by JimFoxvog »

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 11:16 am
In other words, his change of heart had nothing to do with a rational examination of the scientific data.
Correct. He was trying to downplay the thread for political purposes and he changed his mind about minimizing the concern.
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Josh

Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Josh »

JimFoxvog wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 1:55 pm
ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 11:16 am
In other words, his change of heart had nothing to do with a rational examination of the scientific data.
Correct. He was trying to downplay the thread for political purposes and he changed his mind about minimizing the concern.
I would be impressed if he cared about this thread at all.
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Sudsy

Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Sudsy »

Valerie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 8:56 am
Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 8:19 am
JimFoxvog wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 7:25 am
Although I wouldn't express it the same way, I had the same reaction as Ken. Why does "God is in control" seem to serve to dismiss environmental concerns, but not social? Please clarify if that's not what you are doing with the "God is in control" comment.
People can’t control the weather, but we can control actions like whether we chose to commit a crime or not.
I think many of us would like to remind people that God is sovereign over the weather. I'm continually saying that to customers at work pretend to be grumblers and get them to be thankful, look for the good in the weather. Because it is God who is in control of the weather.

People hurt the environment-.

Global warming which has changed to Climate Change seems political, and agenda motivated and lacks recognition of weather patterns

I do believe God is allowing us to suffer the consequences of greed which if that has caused our environment to affect the climate then we are separating the consequences for that. He is still in control of the weather he does not take a back seat to this agenda
I would say God is in control also in the area of sin increasing in that He says where sin abounds grace abounds all the more. So, there is no need to be anxious about anything just as Philippians 4:6 tells us. It becomes a matter of experiencing the peace of God beyond our understanding. It's our choice.
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Valerie

Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Valerie »

Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 4:48 pm
Valerie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 8:56 am
Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 8:19 am

People can’t control the weather, but we can control actions like whether we chose to commit a crime or not.
I think many of us would like to remind people that God is sovereign over the weather. I'm continually saying that to customers at work pretend to be grumblers and get them to be thankful, look for the good in the weather. Because it is God who is in control of the weather.

People hurt the environment-.

Global warming which has changed to Climate Change seems political, and agenda motivated and lacks recognition of weather patterns

I do believe God is allowing us to suffer the consequences of greed which if that has caused our environment to affect the climate then we are separating the consequences for that. He is still in control of the weather he does not take a back seat to this agenda
I would say God is in control also in the area of sin increasing in that He says where sin abounds grace abounds all the more. So, there is no need to be anxious about anything just as Philippians 4:6 tells us. It becomes a matter of experiencing the peace of God beyond our understanding. It's our choice.
Well i do see a difference in God being sovereign over our weather, and him giving free will to every human being.
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