Modern Day Pharisees

[GaryK]

I didn't take it that you were implying that about me.

Good. I wasn't.

Why did you make my statement about sinners rather than the sinful ideologies I mentioned?

I think I said that fairly clearly here:

I don't think Jesus calls us to be "fed up" with either sinners, ideologies, or the world. "Fed up" is about my negative feelings. Jesus doesn't call us to be "fed up", he calls us to be holy. I don't see these threads focusing on how we, as Christians, should relate to the sinful world around us, how we can be the City on a Hill, salt and light. I don't see these threads focusing on how we explain the biblical world view or studying what exactly it is.

And I think it's really helpful to ask what exactly words like fed up and expose mean and how they relate to things that Jesus is actually calling us to. Those are words you regularly see in viral political talking heads. They aren't words I see in the mouth of Jesus. I don't think these words describe what Christians should be mostly about.

I think some of those posts really do target specific people quite personally, by name, people who are not here to defend themselves, with broad accusations that may or may not be true. In fact, some of them turn out to be clearly untrue, but the memory lingers on. And these are often people who are also being targeted in social media. That kind of social media can promise to "expose", with broad emotion, and I think it has a certain prurient appeal, which is why it goes viral. And I suspect that some of the same content that goes viral in worldly social media is viral here for the same reasons. We are, after all, human, and subject to the same temptations as others.

You may feel that people are always talking just about ideologies. I don't.

And even when we are talking about sinful ideologies, how should we do that, as Christians who want to follow the example of Jesus? How is that different from the kind of thing that goes viral among worldly people on social media?

You made it appear that what I was saying had to do with being fed up with sinners. You did this by asking if Jesus gets fed up with sinners. To imply such things in order to make your point is disingenuous at best and dishonest at worst. That's why I'm asking you to take the statement below back.

Fed up? Is Jesus "fed up" with sinners? Doesn't "fed up" make it mostly about our feelings about them? Does Jesus encourage his followers to be "fed up" with the world? Grieving is appropriate and biblical, I think, but it's a different thing.

I think Christians should be fed up with anti-God ideologies that are driving humanity further away from God and when given the opportunity should talk negatively about them.

1 John 2:15-17 NKJV 15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Galatians 5:17-21 NKJV 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Was Paul being Pharisaical by speaking out against worldly sins and by saying that people who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of heaven? According to your standards, I think the answer is yes.

If you are tired of seeing Phariseeism (an anti-God ideology) on MN and have attempted to expose it as you have, then why can't other Christians do the same with other sinful ideologies? And if you want others to believe that you can expose Phariseeism on MN and not have anyone in particular in mind then why don't you believe other Christians can do the same thing with other sinful ideologies?

[GaryK]

I’d like to hear specifics about what people here are doing in real life to expose sinful ideologies. What does it mean to expose these things?

I have preached numerous sermons about the dangers of some of the prevailing worldly ideologies and have talked about how they are negatively affecting young people in particular. I have used some of Brandon Robertson's teaching videos in some of these sermons as examples of some of these anti-God ideologies.

[Josh]

I’d like to hear specifics about what people here are doing in real life to expose sinful ideologies. What does it mean to expose these things?

One thing I believe needs exposed, and I have done so, is the false teaching that human beings were created on “accident” over billions of years and that they are descended from monkeys, worms, and protozoa. God created each human specially, not in accident, and with a purpose.

[Szdfan]

I’d like to hear specifics about what people here are doing in real life to expose sinful ideologies. What does it mean to expose these things?

I have preached numerous sermons about the dangers of some of the prevailing worldly ideologies and have talked about how they are negatively affecting young people in particular. I have used some of Brandon Robertson's teaching videos in some of these sermons as examples of some of these anti-God ideologies.

Did you do this just in church or also in other contexts? Have you done any of this expose with people who are LGBTQ?

[Szdfan]

I’d like to hear specifics about what people here are doing in real life to expose sinful ideologies. What does it mean to expose these things?

One thing I believe needs exposed, and I have done so, is the false teaching that human beings were created on “accident” over billions of years and that they are descended from monkeys, worms, and protozoa. God created each human specially, not in accident, and with a purpose.

What was the context where you did this exposure?

[ken_sylvania]

I’d like to hear specifics about what people here are doing in real life to expose sinful ideologies. What does it mean to expose these things?

Assuming MennoNet is considered real life, I offer the following example:

I will repeat myself: no one can promote homosexuality and enter the kingdom of heaven.

Ken, Christianity isn’t a democracy and Christian doctrine and practice is not determined by conducting polls.

[Szdfan]

I’d like to hear specifics about what people here are doing in real life to expose sinful ideologies. What does it mean to expose these things?

Assuming MennoNet is considered real life, I offer the following example:

I will repeat myself: no one can promote homosexuality and enter the kingdom of heaven.

Ken, Christianity isn’t a democracy and Christian doctrine and practice is not determined by conducting polls.

I’m not sure MennoNet is real life. I guess I’m asking about non-virtual, face-to-face interactions.

Also: I don’t understand how Josh’s statement exposes anything. Doesn’t “expose” imply that something secret has been revealed and that its true nature nature is now in the open? The Christian belief that homosexuality is inherently sinful is not exactly a secret.

When you use the word “expose,” what do you mean by it?

[ken_sylvania]

I’d like to hear specifics about what people here are doing in real life to expose sinful ideologies. What does it mean to expose these things?

Assuming MennoNet is considered real life, I offer the following example:

I will repeat myself: no one can promote homosexuality and enter the kingdom of heaven.

Ken, Christianity isn’t a democracy and Christian doctrine and practice is not determined by conducting polls.

I’m not sure MennoNet is real life. I guess I’m asking about non-virtual, face-to-face interactions.

I'm not in the habit of discussing details of my personal experiences on a forum like this, but feel free to share how you do this if you care to.

Also: I don’t understand how Josh’s statement exposes anything. Doesn’t “expose” imply that something secret has been revealed and that its true nature nature is now in the open? The Christian belief that homosexuality is inherently sinful is not exactly a secret.

When you use the word “expose,” what do you mean by it?

Expose - To publicly reveal the true, objectionable nature of something. To place something where it can easily be seen.
synonyms might be lay bare, display, manifest

Judging by Ken's comments one might easily conclude that an increasing percentage of people are unaware that homosexual behavior is actually sinful and abhorrent to God.

[Szdfan]

Expose - To publicly reveal the true, objectionable nature of something. To place something where it can easily be seen.
synonyms might be lay bare, display, manifest

Is exposing something in a context where most people already agree with you really publicly revealing something? Most of the participants here and in conservative Mennonite churches are already going to know and believe this.

Judging by Ken's comments one might easily conclude that an increasing percentage of people are unaware that homosexual behavior is actually sinful and abhorrent to God.

I think people do know this view, but they reject it and don’t believe it’s true. So I don’t think it’s a knowledge issue. Plenty of LGBTQ people have heard this their entire lives.

[Josh]

I’d like to hear specifics about what people here are doing in real life to expose sinful ideologies. What does it mean to expose these things?

One thing I believe needs exposed, and I have done so, is the false teaching that human beings were created on “accident” over billions of years and that they are descended from monkeys, worms, and protozoa. God created each human specially, not in accident, and with a purpose.

What was the context where you did this exposure?

Many different contexts. The best example the springs to mind was someone who told me he didn’t feel his life had much value or purpose, and after all, his existence was an accident. I told him that quite to the contrary, God created him and created the whole world, and none of this was an accident or due to chance.