Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 2:02 pm
I was kind of shocked when I realized that two different plain communities, who dress in ways that look extremely similar to an outsider like me, may sometimes reject the way the other community dresses because they have the "wrong" kind of head covering or whatever.
Does this constitute Phariseeism in your opinion?
I have been doing my best to say what I think Jesus was criticizing in the Pharisees, and why their approach to religion is the opposite of what Jesus was preaching.
How would you apply that to this particular example, Gary? Do you think the scriptures or principles mentioned in this thread apply? If so, how? Do you have personal experience with this issue? If so, how did that affect the people and communities involved? Or can others who are plain or have been plain weigh in on this?
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 2:02 pmI was kind of shocked when I realized that two different plain communities, who dress in ways that look extremely similar to an outsider like me, may sometimes reject the way the other community dresses because they have the "wrong" kind of head covering or whatever.
Live in a "Plain"-heavy area like Franklin County or Lancaster County PA for a couple years, and you'll find this is not as uncommon as you might have once thought, sadly...
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 2:02 pmAnd of course, plain communities can criticize the clothing of non-plain Christians, and non-plain Christians can criticize the clothing of plain Christians. But physical clothing isn't a central issue in the New Testament, in either direction.
That might bear qualifying, though it would probably best be done with another post, lol.
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 2:02 pm
I was kind of shocked when I realized that two different plain communities, who dress in ways that look extremely similar to an outsider like me, may sometimes reject the way the other community dresses because they have the "wrong" kind of head covering or whatever.
Does this constitute Phariseeism in your opinion?
I have been doing my best to say what I think Jesus was criticizing in the Pharisees, and why their approach to religion is the opposite of what Jesus was preaching.
How would you apply that to this particular example, Gary? Do you think the scriptures or principles mentioned in this thread apply? If so, how? Do you have personal experience with this issue? If so, how did that affect the people and communities involved?
This is a thread on modern day Pharisees.
In the example you gave, you mentioned nothing about what Jesus would have to say about the 2 plain churches. So, I'll ask it in a different way: Do you believe Jesus would equate the example you gave to modern day Phariseeism?
I grew up in a very plain church that taught the new birth and expected right living and required a lot of things that made very little sense to me as I grew older. Looking back, I now understand that with the bishop and leaders of that day having just left the Amish because of wanting to do better in evangelizing and sharing the gospel, they were simply doing the best they knew how to apply the NT teachings about not loving the world or the things in the world. I fully expect to see the bishop of those early years of my life in heaven. I'm not persuaded that I'll see the types of Pharisees Jesus talks about in Mt 23 there.
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 2:10 pm
I have been doing my best to say what I think Jesus was criticizing in the Pharisees, and why their approach to religion is the opposite of what Jesus was preaching.
How would you apply that to this particular example, Gary? Do you think the scriptures or principles mentioned in this thread apply? If so, how? Do you have personal experience with this issue? If so, how did that affect the people and communities involved?
This is a thread on modern day Pharisees.
In the example you gave, you mentioned nothing about what Jesus would have to say about the 2 plain churches. So, I'll ask it in a different way: Do you believe Jesus would equate the example you gave to modern day Phariseeism?
I am much more comfortable applying the teachings of Jesus to my own branch of Christianity and my own life. I don't think God has called me to be his prophet to plain Mennonites, and I do not think I have the wisdom or knowledge or relationships to be able to do that. But I do hope that each of us is trying to apply the teachings of Scripture in our own setting.
GaryK wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 2:41 pmI grew up in a very plain church that taught the new birth and expected right living and required a lot of things that made very little sense to me as I grew older. Looking back, I now understand that with the bishop and leaders of that day having just left the Amish because of wanting to do better in evangelizing and sharing the gospel, they were simply doing the best they knew how to apply the NT teachings about not loving the world or the things in the world. I fully expect to see the bishop of those early years of my life in heaven. I'm not persuaded that I'll see the types of Pharisees Jesus talks about in Mt 23 there.
I think Jesus will have to sort all of that out. It is definitely not my job to decide who winds up in heaven and who does not. The Pharisees thought that they did have that calling, I think, and they were wrong. You know those people and that church much better than I ever will.
What I can do, I think, is do my best to sort out the issues that Jesus had with the Pharisees, see what others have to say about that, and try to have a conversation where we each do our best to apply these teachings in our own setting.
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 2:10 pm
I have been doing my best to say what I think Jesus was criticizing in the Pharisees, and why their approach to religion is the opposite of what Jesus was preaching.
How would you apply that to this particular example, Gary? Do you think the scriptures or principles mentioned in this thread apply? If so, how? Do you have personal experience with this issue? If so, how did that affect the people and communities involved?
This is a thread on modern day Pharisees.
In the example you gave, you mentioned nothing about what Jesus would have to say about the 2 plain churches. So, I'll ask it in a different way: Do you believe Jesus would equate the example you gave to modern day Phariseeism?
I am much more comfortable applying the teachings of Jesus to my own branch of Christianity and my own life. I don't think God has called me to be his prophet to plain Mennonites, and I do not think I have the wisdom or knowledge or relationships to be able to do that. But I do hope that each of us is trying to apply the teachings of Scripture in our own setting.
GaryK wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 2:41 pmI grew up in a very plain church that taught the new birth and expected right living and required a lot of things that made very little sense to me as I grew older. Looking back, I now understand that with the bishop and leaders of that day having just left the Amish because of wanting to do better in evangelizing and sharing the gospel, they were simply doing the best they knew how to apply the NT teachings about not loving the world or the things in the world. I fully expect to see the bishop of those early years of my life in heaven. I'm not persuaded that I'll see the types of Pharisees Jesus talks about in Mt 23 there.
I think Jesus will have to sort all of that out. It is definitely not my job to decide who winds up in heaven and who does not. The Pharisees thought that they did have that calling, I think, and they were wrong. You know those people and that church much better than I ever will.
What I can do, I think, is do my best to sort out the issues that Jesus had with the Pharisees, see what others have to say about that, and try to have a conversation where we each do our best to apply these teachings in our own setting.
I think you are making a good case for why it's not a good idea to be using the Phariseeism label on other Christians.
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 2:02 pm
I was kind of shocked when I realized that two different plain communities, who dress in ways that look extremely similar to an outsider like me, may sometimes reject the way the other community dresses because they have the "wrong" kind of head covering or whatever.
Praise God that you are not like those plain people, who criticize each others coverings styles?
