6 killed at private Christian School in Nashville

[Josh]

I have never advocated disarming law-abiding citizens. If you want to accurately characterize my views you can find them in this thread. Instead of inventing some fictional strawman to argue against as you usually do.

But in any event....

Every other country that has passed the laws you want has ended up banning self defence for private citizens, particular with firearms. The net result is that private citizens are left utterly defenceless.

I think that's a bad thing.

[Ken]

I have never advocated disarming law-abiding citizens. If you want to accurately characterize my views you can find them in this thread. Instead of inventing some fictional strawman to argue against as you usually do.

But in any event....

Every other country that has passed the laws you want has ended up banning self defence for private citizens, particular with firearms. The net result is that private citizens are left utterly defenceless.

I think that's a bad thing.

This is utterly false: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

In any event, I find it disturbing that you are so eager for a license to kill other people.

[Soloist]

I find it disturbing how easily both of you distort each other.

[Josh]

Every other country that has passed the laws you want has ended up banning self defence for private citizens, particular with firearms. The net result is that private citizens are left utterly defenceless.

I think that's a bad thing.

This is utterly false: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

I'm not sure what a Wikipedia article about "stand your ground laws" has to do with anything. In places like Australia, Canada, and the UK (the ones with which I'm familiar), they have passed strict gun control and have also basically criminalised the most basic forms of self defence. For example, you have to retreat from your own home if home invaders who are armed enter it, and you could get charged with a crime if you attempt to fight back. I think that's very wrong, particularly since the police are not doing much at all to help people be safe in their own homes.

In any event, I find it disturbing that you are so eager for a license to kill other people.

As I've pointed out to you several times, my church doesn't tolerate ownership of firearms for self defence. Does yours? I am not looking personally for a "licence to kill other people". However, I think law-abiding citizens - my neighbours - should have the right to defend themselves, including with deadly force and with firearms. That's what keeps our neighbourhoods safe.

[Ken]

Every other country that has passed the laws you want has ended up banning self defence for private citizens, particular with firearms. The net result is that private citizens are left utterly defenceless.

I think that's a bad thing.

This is utterly false: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

I'm not sure what a Wikipedia article about "stand your ground laws" has to do with anything. In places like Australia, Canada, and the UK (the ones with which I'm familiar), they have passed strict gun control and have also basically criminalised the most basic forms of self defence. For example, you have to retreat from your own home if home invaders who are armed enter it, and you could get charged with a crime if you attempt to fight back. I think that's very wrong, particularly since the police are not doing much at all to help people be safe in their own homes.

In any event, I find it disturbing that you are so eager for a license to kill other people.

As I've pointed out to you several times, my church doesn't tolerate ownership of firearms for self defence. Does yours? I am not looking personally for a "licence to kill other people". However, I think law-abiding citizens - my neighbours - should have the right to defend themselves, including with deadly force and with firearms. That's what keeps our neighbourhoods safe.

Stand your ground laws are self defense laws. You claimed that every country with strong gun laws has ended up banning self-defense. That is simply wrong.

[Josh]

Stand your ground laws are self defense laws. You claimed that every country with strong gun laws has ended up banning self-defense. That is simply wrong.

Ken, you can't defend yourself with a firearm in Australia. End of discussion.

[Ken]

Stand your ground laws are self defense laws. You claimed that every country with strong gun laws has ended up banning self-defense. That is simply wrong.

Ken, you can't defend yourself with a firearm in Australia. End of discussion.

You said Australians had no right of self defense. Which is wrong. There are endless methods of self defense that don't involve killing. Australians just don't have a license to kill. And that same law makes Australia a vastly safer place than Ohio. Also, Australia is not the only country in the world with strict gun laws. I, for one, prefer not to live some place where my 16 year old daughter needs to arm herself in order to be safe on the street. Or where she is at risk of getting gunned down in school because a psycho classmate can buy an AR-16 and 1000 rounds of ammo no questions even asked. Or where she might get shot in a road rage incident after an accidental fender bender. All things that happen at vastly higher frequencies here in the US than in Australia. That is what we are talking about here when you get right down to it.

[barnhart]

Has the removal of Australian's "right of self defense" made them less safe?

[Josh]

Has the removal of Australian's "right of self defense" made them less safe?

Yes. There is significantly more violence than 20 years ago. In particular, home invasions have become more common; the police will tell you to “move to a safer area” if you ask for help.

I think that people should have the right to protect themselves in their own homes against violent, armed criminals breaking in to hurt them.

[barnhart]

That is interesting. When I google "violent crime rate, Australia" I get data of a steady decrease since 1990.