6 killed at private Christian School in Nashville

[RZehr]

Because the point of the Second Amendment was to give civilians the freedom to bear arms, not the military - I’m not sure if the National Guard qualifies for Second Amendment category of “militia”. Because I believe that in war times, the National Guard falls under the command of the US military. Right?
Seems to me that a 2A “militia” would not fall under the command of the military since the 2A was established as a safeguard against the governments military.

[Ken]

Because the point of the Second Amendment was to give civilians the freedom to bear arms, not the military - I’m not sure if the National Guard qualifies for Second Amendment category of “militia”. Because I believe that in war times, the National Guard falls under the command of the US military. Right?
Seems to me that a 2A “militia” would not fall under the command of the military since the 2A was established as a safeguard against the governments military.

What were militias used for in colonial times? Basically two things:

1. Slave patrols in the southern states
2. Defense against Indian attack or for settlers to make offensive war against local Indian tribes to drive them away.

Militias were also sometimes mobilized in times of war but in such cases would typically fall under military authority (like with the National Guard) and would be provided military weapons. So when it comes to the right to bear arms, it is mostly slave patrols and waging war against Indians.

Are either of those relevant today?

And if you think the 2nd Amendment provides any safeguard against the government's military you are living in fantasy land.

Here is just some of the equipment of just one US Army Brigade of about 4000 soldiers. And this doesn't even show their small arms and ammunition, only vehicles. The Army has about 500,000 active duty troops and the Marine Corps has another 177,000 troops. Plus another half million or so in the Guard and Reserves. Tell us how a band of guys armed up at Cabela is going to slow this down?



Here's another completely separate Infantry Brigade of about the same size, 4,000 soldiers. THIS is what a band of guys with AR-15s is going to take on?

[RZehr]

The fact that civilian militias were used in the past, outside of the military chain of command, is the argument you offer in support of militias today being under military command? I see. A bit of an own goal, but alright.

[Soloist]

Ken underestimates the ability to resist modern weapons.

[Ken]

Ken underestimates the ability to resist modern weapons.

I discount the ability of civilians to resist modern military weapons USING CIVILIAN WEAPONS of the sort covered by the 2nd Amendment.

If you look at say the example of Ukraine. There were civilians who were instrumental in blocking the Russian advance in February 2022. But they weren't taking on columns of Russian tanks using AR-15s that they bought at the local gun store. They were using things like Javelin anti-tank missiles and anti-tank mines that they had got from the Ukrainian army. And they were armed with regular automatic weapons and machine guns that they had also got from the Ukrainian army. And also calling in artillery strikes using their cell phones. So yes, civilians can and do engage in combat against modern militaries. Especially when you have groups of civilians who are military vets and know what they are doing. But what they AREN'T doing is taking on tanks and armored vehicles with weapons they bought at their local Cabela.

The Ukraine war is not being fought by militias using civilian weapons.

[Soloist]

As I said, you really underestimate civilian options.

[Josh]

Here is just some of the equipment of just one US Army Brigade of about 4000 soldiers. And this doesn't even show their small arms and ammunition, only vehicles. The Army has about 500,000 active duty troops and the Marine Corps has another 177,000 troops. Plus another half million or so in the Guard and Reserves. Tell us how a band of guys armed up at Cabela is going to slow this down?

Ask the Taliban. They dealt with both the Soviets and the Americans, and they weren't even able to shop at Cabela's.

[Soloist]

Ask the Taliban. They dealt with both the Soviets and the Americans, and they weren't even able to shop at Cabela's.

There is a saying “the Taliban was before the Russians, the Taliban was there after. The Taliban was before the Americans, the Taliban was there after.”

[Ken]

Here is just some of the equipment of just one US Army Brigade of about 4000 soldiers. And this doesn't even show their small arms and ammunition, only vehicles. The Army has about 500,000 active duty troops and the Marine Corps has another 177,000 troops. Plus another half million or so in the Guard and Reserves. Tell us how a band of guys armed up at Cabela is going to slow this down?

Ask the Taliban. They dealt with both the Soviets and the Americans, and they weren't even able to shop at Cabela's.

Yes, they used weapons that would be completely illegal to own in the US. They used immense amounts of explosives to create IEDs and suicide bombers. They used AKs and other automatic weapons that are not legal. And they used things like RPGs and other hand-held missiles. They were supplied with immense amounts of actual military weaponry by Pakistan and via arms bazars and such.

What the Taliban did not do is defeat the USSR or Afghan army using weapons of the sort that are covered by the 2nd Amendment in the US.

If you gave some Taliban guy an AR-15 he would look at it and think there was something wrong with it because it fired only one shot at a time and throw it away to get a real automatic weapon that could fire bursts.

I am not making an argument that civilian militias or guerrillas bands can't be effective fighting forces. I am saying that when they are effective fighting forces they aren't relying on civilian weaponry that we would consider to be covered by the 2nd Amendment. And the idea that civilian duffers with their AR collections would ever constitute an effective fighting force against an actual conventional army WITH THOSE WEAPONS is nonsense. If they were actual guerrilla fighters in an actual war, the first thing they would do is throw away all their civilian weapons and stock up with actual military ones.

[JimFoxvog]