Atheist declares there are only two sexes

[Josh]

Here’s my opinion about what Ken does. (Perhaps I’m wrong, but this is just my opinion.)

I or someone else makes a statement like “I think it’s good not to kick puppies.”

I think Ken interprets this as: “I think we should have government mandates, laws, and enforcement against kicking puppies.”

I’m not sure why, but I think he views any moral argument or statement about right and wrong as somehow implying the state, with force, should enforce the speaker’s view. It becomes impossible to have any non-political discussion about virtually any topic.

This may be a key difference between the liberal-progressive and the rest of us. I think, for example, that in San Francisco, there shouldn’t be homeless encampments on sidewalks and open air drug markets. I’m not saying government has to get involved. I’m just saying that open air drug markets, mass fentanyl overdoses, and used needles lying on sidewalks and in parks are a bad thing.

[Ken]

Here’s my opinion about what Ken does. (Perhaps I’m wrong, but this is just my opinion.)

I or someone else makes a statement like “I think it’s good not to kick puppies.”

I think Ken interprets this as: “I think we should have government mandates, laws, and enforcement against kicking puppies.”

I’m not sure why, but I think he views any moral argument or statement about right and wrong as somehow implying the state, with force, should enforce the speaker’s view. It becomes impossible to have any non-political discussion about virtually any topic.

This may be a key difference between the liberal-progressive and the rest of us. I think, for example, that in San Francisco, there shouldn’t be homeless encampments on sidewalks and open air drug markets. I’m not saying government has to get involved. I’m just saying that open air drug markets, mass fentanyl overdoses, and used needles lying on sidewalks and in parks are a bad thing.

That is your example? You have expended an enormous amount of bandwidth here on this forum arguing that the government should be tougher on crime and railing against "George Soros" prosecutors or whatever. You argue that the government should use capital punishment. You argue that the government should take more action on school violence. You argue that the government should take action on abortion. You argue that the government should outlaw gay marriage and transgender care. You argue for government laws regulating which bathroom transgender youth are allowed to use. And so forth.

This topic is in current events. What are the current events surrounding definitions of sex and gender being discussed here? They all relate to government action. Whether it is regulating transgender health care or participation on sports teams. In fact, it is me on the other gender related thread who is arguing against heavy-handed government intervention.

[Josh]

That is your example? You have expended an enormous amount of bandwidth here on this forum arguing that the government should be tougher on crime and railing against "George Soros" prosecutors or whatever. You argue that the government should use capital punishment. You argue that the government should take more action on school violence. You argue that the government should take action on abortion. You argue that the government should outlaw gay marriage and transgender care. You argue for government laws regulating which bathroom transgender youth are allowed to use. And so forth.

Political discussions are appropriate for the politics subforum.

Yes, I think violent, wicked murders should be punished. And yes, I don't think innocent unborn babies should be brutally dismembered or poisoned, tortured, and then murdered.

This topic is in current events. What are the current events surrounding definitions of sex and gender being discussed here? They all relate to government action. Whether it is regulating transgender health care or participation on sports teams. In fact, it is me on the other gender related thread who is arguing against heavy-handed government intervention.

This topic is not remotely about government action. The only person who wants to keep dragging politics into it is you.

The original topic was Mr Dawkins who made a statement that there are only two sexes. A number of us agree with him. You don't. And then you decided somehow this is a political topic:

There are a lot of things I don't want my government intervening in such as faith, artistic expression, freedom of movement, freedom of association, child rearing, choice of profession, etc. etc. And I put deeply personal questions of sexual or gender identity into that same category. I don't see it as any of the government's business.

None of this is remotely relevant at all to the question of whether or not human beings have sexes other than "male" or "female". That's not a political question. It's actually a very basic biological, religious, and epistemological one. There is no reason to be discussing the government or politics at all.

[Sliceitup]

PAIS and CAIS don’t fit into your definition. They are fully XY but usually are considered female.

Considered by who? Please provide the actual disorders and I’ll reply about it, there are a number of disorders out there and we do keep finding more varieties.
I don’t know them all and while I likely have heard of it, I don’t remember off hand.

Partial Androgen Insensitivity and Complete Androgen Insensitivity. Those with partial type are usually seen as female until puberty when they begin to look decidedly masculine. Those with complete type are usually just considered tall, slender women but they never menstruate and can’t have children. Both types are usually over represented in athletics.

What frustrates me so much about the rigid binary thinking on sex is how it doesn’t give room for nuance and real life situations. As always I’ll go with the example of Caster Semenya, a South African runner who was considered female by all, until she started winning races. Then she was told she couldn’t compete because her body produced too much testosterone. She looks very masculine. And is supposedly XY with PAIS. During Semenya’s teen years there would be competitors who saw her and said they won’t race against a boy. So she would take them to the bathroom to show them that she had the proper female genitals. But yet Matt Walsh sits here laughing at the idea that it might be hard to define who is a woman.

[Soloist]

Partial Androgen Insensitivity and Complete Androgen Insensitivity. Those with partial type are usually seen as female until puberty when they begin to look decidedly masculine. Those with complete type are usually just considered tall, slender women but they never menstruate and can’t have children. Both types are usually over represented in athletics.

First of all, they do fit in my categories. Heartless? Perhaps… but accurate.
These people are male, they don’t have ovaries, a uterus, just a failure on the body to finish closing the shaft (hypospadias) and have a blind pouch from incomplete development. They still have a prostate but it tends to be under developed.
Now that the definition is taken care of… what to do about someone like this who is raised as a girl?
Not my place to dictate government response and I would hope the church had compassion and spent time in prayer before addressing this sort of situation. This is not just a male disorder either. Women can have similar but tends to have more problems.

What frustrates me so much about the rigid binary thinking on sex is how it doesn’t give room for nuance and real life situations. As always I’ll go with the example of Caster Semenya, a South African runner who was considered female by all, until she started winning races. Then she was told she couldn’t compete because her body produced too much testosterone. She looks very masculine. And is supposedly XY with PAIS. During Semenya’s teen years there would be competitors who saw her and said they won’t race against a boy. So she would take them to the bathroom to show them that she had the proper female genitals. But yet Matt Walsh sits here laughing at the idea that it might be hard to define who is a woman.

I don’t know what the right (God’s answer) to this is, but if you were raised your entire life believing one thing and having the right outside… who am I to dictate what they do? Now the church is a different story. I freely admit there is going to be problems there due to ignorance.
I really couldn’t care very much for Matt Walsh, he doesn’t care any for those who desisted or detransitioned other then for politics.
My doc I worked for in the navy encountered this very problem. A couple had been trying to have children, the husband was referred to Urology and the wife also came along. Half an hour later the doctor told them the problem. They were both biologically men.
Blind pouch, no masculine development, a small micro protrusion with a hypospadias. Easy to miss if you never have diagnostic imaging or any genetic testing. They should have caught it when there was no period from the “woman”

[RZehr]

My doc I worked for in the navy encountered this very problem. A couple had been trying to have children, the husband was referred to Urology and the wife also came along. Half an hour later the doctor told them the problem. They were both biologically men.
Blind pouch, no masculine development, a small micro protrusion with a hypospadias. Easy to miss if you never have diagnostic imaging or any genetic testing. They should have caught it when there was no period from the “woman”

[Josh]

What frustrates me so much about the rigid binary thinking on sex is how it doesn’t give room for nuance and real life situations. As always I’ll go with the example of Caster Semenya, a South African runner who was considered female by all, until she started winning races. Then she was told she couldn’t compete because her body produced too much testosterone. She looks very masculine. And is supposedly XY with PAIS. During Semenya’s teen years there would be competitors who saw her and said they won’t race against a boy. So she would take them to the bathroom to show them that she had the proper female genitals. But yet Matt Walsh sits here laughing at the idea that it might be hard to define who is a woman.

The fact disorders exist does not mean that there are other sexes in humans than male and female. People are either male or female, and within that, various disorders can exist.

It's quite easy to define what a man and a woman are, and indeed we've had no trouble doing it for thousands of years. It is complete sophistry to act like the modern LGBTP+ movement is about helping "intersexed" people (which is a label that none of the CAIS or other people I have personally known have ever accepted for themselves). The LGBTP+ movement is entirely about men who want to cross-dress and pretend they are women, and are biologically male in every sense of the word.

[Soloist]

The LGBTP+ movement is entirely about men who want to cross-dress and pretend they are women, and are biologically male in every sense of the word.

And this of course why there is such a high increase with females transitioning…
Josh, it’s not just men and the fastest growing numbers are from young ladies. The rates for men are not nearly as high even though men were the historical group.

[Josh]

The LGBTP+ movement is entirely about men who want to cross-dress and pretend they are women, and are biologically male in every sense of the word.

And this of course why there is such a high increase with females transitioning…
Josh, it’s not just men and the fastest growing numbers are from young ladies. The rates for men are not nearly as high even though men were the historical group.

Good point, back when I had a lot of LGBT friends (and, I fear, some closeted LGBTP), females desiring to be men was very rare. Now it is shockingly common.

However, the core of the LGBTP+ movement is about perverted men who want to act out on whatever their sick, twisted desires are.

[Sliceitup]

Partial Androgen Insensitivity and Complete Androgen Insensitivity. Those with partial type are usually seen as female until puberty when they begin to look decidedly masculine. Those with complete type are usually just considered tall, slender women but they never menstruate and can’t have children. Both types are usually over represented in athletics.

First of all, they do fit in my categories. Heartless? Perhaps… but accurate.
These people are male, they don’t have ovaries, a uterus, just a failure on the body to finish closing the shaft (hypospadias) and have a blind pouch from incomplete development. They still have a prostate but it tends to be under developed.
Now that the definition is taken care of… what to do about someone like this who is raised as a girl?
Not my place to dictate government response and I would hope the church had compassion and spent time in prayer before addressing this sort of situation. This is not just a male disorder either. Women can have similar but tends to have more problems.

So would it be fair to say that you think that while everyone can be categorized into a specific gender according to their chromosomes and mutations thereof, that they might not always live their life in the gender that would be assigned to their chromosomal makeup? And that it would be ok, and maybe even right, for people to do so because sometimes the chromosomes don’t tell the full story?